Lord of the Rings TV series synopsis

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
It doesn’t have to be one or the other. Does it? I’ve shown strong support from the author that a connection to the Flood was intended, which is what I think you started as objecting to. Now you’re drilling down on Amandil. I have no idea what your argument is.
There was no argument. I just said it would be Elendil, not Amandil as just a comment. Not to argue. You came back and argued that you said Elendil(leaving out the Amandil portion), so I felt like I needed to show that you said Amandil. I like accuracy is all.
 

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And that would be...?

The Fall of Numenor can be looked at in a variety of ways, so I'd be hesitant to reduce it to a clear and distinct religious message. But Tolkien obviously saw power as a big issue -- that it, by its very nature, is subject to abuse (thus Gandalf's famous speech about "At first I would use the ring for good, but...").

On a surface reading, we can say that Tolkien is proselytizing that humans shouldn't challenge the divine order/gods, that to disobey means death, so there are hints of Biblical wrath.

On a deeper level, it is an exploration of hubris and desiring power, in the context of seeking immortality as mortal beings. The Valar said, essentially, "you can't go West in a mortal form" -- which the Numenorians tried to do. Numenor was destroyed because they followed Sauron, who as a kind of recapitulation of Morgoth, sought to extend his power in the physical domain in a way that was out of harmony with the natural, which itself was the expression of the divine. In that sense, we can see echoes in a lot of apocalyptic fiction, where our technology gets ahead of ourselves by messing with the powers of nature, either atomically, environmentally, or genetically.

So I don't see Tolkien as presenting a heavy-handed religious message as much as he was exploring archetypal things about power, nature, etc. Because he was a devote Catholic doesn't make his messaging a kind of missionary apologism for Christianity, but his faith obviously influenced his work, if only by providing a basic ideological toolbox with certain archetypal themes, many of which have applicability across many cultures and ideologies (e.g. "The Fall" from a "Golden Age," which as Richard Heinberg and others have explored, is one of the most universal myths). But that is true of his entire body of work, so I'm not sure why Numenor would be any more problematic than LoTR.

And of course "messaging" is only a problem if you don't like the message, or if it intrudes upon your suspension of belief and thus, enjoyment of the story. Fiction is filled with messaging of different kinds. I agree that if it gets too heavy-handed, with a sense that the creators are saying, "You should think this way, and if you aren't enjoying this and nodding your head, you're despicable," then it can be jarring, or at least annoying. I've never gotten that sense from Tolkien's work, unlike more overt religiously proselytizing fiction (e.g. Left Behind, which I admittedly haven't read) or much of contemporary media with sociocultural themes.
interpretation... overinterpretation... better stop it
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
It doesn’t have to be one or the other. Does it? I’ve shown strong support from the author that a connection to the Flood was intended, which is what I think you started as objecting to. Now you’re drilling down on Amandil. I have no idea what your argument is.
You've shown a connection to Noah, which could be the flood, or it could have been as simple as a water cataclysm, which the sinking of Numenor was. Heck it could have just been a surviving family of a disaster related to a god, which his religious mind simply connected to Noah. How strong or weak the connection is cannot be told from a single word.

Edit: I'm tired and thought you responded to me after my last post. Sorry to quote the same post twice. I'm going to sleep. :)
 



Dausuul

Legend
I've been assuming the series will be some smooshed together version of 2nd Age events, with Annatar making nice with elves, dwarves, and humans, teaching them awesome things (including: rings!), beguiling the humans into wanting elven immortality, and the fall of Numenor and the breaking of the circles of the world.
That would be difficult to do and preserve the timeline of the Second Age (and I know one of the Tolkien estate's requirements was fidelity to the original; Amazon could fill in the blanks that Tolkien left, but they couldn't change anything he'd written). IIRC, it was 1800 years between the forging of the Rings and the fall of Numenor.

I suppose they could do something with flashbacks, but it would be tricky to pull that off. Otherwise they have to pick one or the other. Personally, I think the fall of Numenor is the more compelling story, but it is kind of a downer ending.
 
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