Lost 3/21/2007

[GoodKingJayIII]

I'm nearly positive that you don't know what a metaphor is.

Nope, I do. Promise. I'm sorry I don't like where the show's going, however I don't remember insulting your intelligence. But moving right along...

To sum, no box, no device, no magical writer escape route. It's a metaphor for an effect.

Right, and what is that effect? I don't remember the exact quote, but Henry said something along the lines of "opening it up and finding whatever you desired." And that's my problem with the whole thing. It doesn't matter what the it is. Or isn't. It's going to take the show further in a nonsensical, circuitous direction.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

Right, and what is that effect? I don't remember the exact quote, but Henry said something along the lines of "opening it up and finding whatever you desired." And that's my problem with the whole thing. It doesn't matter what the it is. Or isn't. It's going to take the show further in a nonsensical, circuitous direction.

Or... and here's just a random thought... we could wait and see exactly what the "magic box" is before we decide whether it's just a complete macguffin for the writers or if it is just Ben lying to John to try and continue to manipulate him even further.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The show hasn't "lost focus." The original focus was untenable for a continuing series. At some point, they will be able to survive the island. They will figure out food and water and shelter. After that, they either pull the plug on the show, or it has to change.

That you don't like where the show went is fine, but the accusation leveled against the show doesn't make sense. As Bear on "Man vs. Wild" pointed out in his desert island episode, after a day of adapting, he was pretty much set up to live on his particular island indefinitely "but that would make for a pretty boring show."

And the magic box isn't new -- the smoke monster is almost certainly what was screaming and smashing the trees in the very first episode, representing the survivors' fear of the unknown in the dark. We just finally get to hear what the Others call it.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Right, and what is that effect? I don't remember the exact quote, but Henry said something along the lines of "opening it up and finding whatever you desired." And that's my problem with the whole thing. It doesn't matter what the it is. Or isn't. It's going to take the show further in a nonsensical, circuitous direction.

Also remember Alex warning Locke that her father manipulates people with the things he says. His "magic box" story for Locke may have been just that. And saying the man from Talahasee was something else the magic box delivered up is almost certainly further manipulation on Henry's part.

My first reaction to anything the Other's tell the Losties is that they're lying, or misdirecting with half-truths. Like the telcomm guy saying he was the last of the Dharma Initiative, and the Others wheren't Dharma. Obviously, he wasn't the last of Dharma, but everyone seems to think he was being truthful that the Others aren't Dharma, either. I'm not convinced of that, especially after Henry saying he was born on the island.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The best evidence that the Others aren't Dharma is that the Dharma tape explicitly mentions hostiles living on the island.

 

[occam]

Because a "magic box" (even a metaphorical one) where anything you desire pops out is a get out of jail free card. Writers short on ideas? Let's use the magic box!

I can understand where you're coming from, but it seems like we don't yet know enough to dismiss it so readily. Whatever the "magic box" is or represents, there may very well be severe restrictions on its use, significant limitations on its capabilities, and/or require great sacrifices, all of which may (and will, I hope!) make sense if and when we find out what it really is.

It may be something like wish, or miracle, in 3.x: "Imagine a spell that could give you anything you desire." Sure, with some very specific limitations and guidelines, at the cost of good chunk of XP, and, if you have an old-school DM, at the risk of over-literal or imaginative interpretation of the request.

Even if Benry was being truthful, either literally or metaphorically, and the "box" actually exists, there could be a lot more to it.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

Or... and here's just a random thought... we could wait and see exactly what the "magic box" is before we decide whether it's just a complete macguffin for the writers or if it is just Ben lying to John to try and continue to manipulate him even further.

We could, and I probably will. But this is the internet; I'm allowed to whine and complain and scoff at something once in a while. (And judging by my post count here and the typical post I leave, you'll notice I do it very rarely).

I've been pretty frustrated with Lost since about the middle of Season 2. The best episode of the season was Hurley's a few weeks back, and that had almost nothing to do with the meta-plot.

I still get the sense that there is no definite direction for the show. All the theories on the internet, while interesting, are not going to change my feelings about that.

The show hasn't "lost focus."

It has. Underneath all the weird theories and conspiracies and Others and four-toed statues and whatever, Lost was a show about characters: individual characters, character connections, and so forth. The show began to slide away from that focus with the tail folks. It would've been nice if they'd actually integrated them into the cast, but instead they killed half of them and ignored the rest. And why? Because they had no direction. No plan. Anna Lucia was murdered because Michelle Rodriguez got busted for DUI so many times they thought it was bad PR. They didn't have a better reason for killing her, and it showed. They did a little better with Mr. Eko... but they couldn't really have two John Locke's on the show.

It also shows in their flashback choices. They give a ton of episodes to Jack or Kate but in comparison have virtually ignored someone like Claire, who is supposedly very important because of her son.

Lost is no longer tight and cohesive. They've thrown a lot of threads out there and continue to ignore many of them. They've tried to spread their focus on too many characters and too many mysteries. They're taking too long to get to the conclusion--if in fact they even know what that is. All those things constitute a pretty distinct loss of focus in my mind.

 

[The Grumpy Celt]

The best evidence that the Others aren't Dharma is that the Dharma tape explicitly mentions hostiles living on the island.

Well, that raises the question of who is supplying them and why. Assuming they are not Dharma people, that that the bit about "hostiles" is not some ruse, then why do people on the mainland keep the island people supplies with Dharma stuff and the latest Stephen King book?

 

[Mark CMG]

I believe that the magic box metaphor was only meant, by Ben, to say that the Others have a long reach and if they want something to be on the island they can bring something to the island. I believe that in studying the Losties, Ben discovered that Locke does not want to leave and has brought the con man to the island as an incentive to get Locke to work with the Others. But I believe he is doing it under the guise of having figured out that Locke might have some attunement to the island that has helped heal.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

It has. Underneath all the weird theories and conspiracies and Others and four-toed statues and whatever, Lost was a show about characters: individual characters, character connections, and so forth. The show began to slide away from that focus with the tail folks.

If it's not about characters now, I wish they'd knock off all the flashbacks.

There have always been characters that everyone doesn't like as much as the others. My wife likes Sayid to a point that it kind of freaks me out. I laugh like an idiot all the way through Sawyer's episodes and the Rose/Bernard one is possibly my favorite of the series.

Yes, they've added more characters to the mix and yes, not every character has gotten an equal amount of attention. Not every character inspires the writers the same way and not every character's flashback fits the present day tone equally well -- it's tough to do a Hurley episode when things are bleak in the present, for instance.

That's not "lost its way" that's "they're doing flashbacks about characters I don't like as much."

Anna Lucia was murdered because Michelle Rodriguez got busted for DUI so many times they thought it was bad PR.

Even though she said she only wanted to work for a year and had it put into her contract.

They did a little better with Mr. Eko... but they couldn't really have two John Locke's on the show.

Even though he said he only wanted to work for a year and had it put into his contract.

They're taking too long to get to the conclusion--if in fact they even know what that is.

Everyone involved in the production has said they've had a six week wrap-it-all-up conclusion storyline sitting in the can since midway through the first season. It'll have to be tweaked to fit in with the current characters, but they've got a plan. Now, in fact, they've apparently talked to ABC and will end with their fifth season and will write to that point.

You might consider doing what a lot of my friends do with series of novels and not pick any of them up until it's all concluded. Grabbing the DVD sets and binging, knowing there's a conclusion, might make the experience more pleasurable.