Lost

More food for thought

And since I'm a RedShirt, I have to mention this:

Episode Title: "SHORE LEAVE"
Production Number: 17
Original Air Date: 12-29-66
Stardates: 3025.3, 3025.8
Synopsis: After three months, the crew of the U.S.S. Enterprise is in need of a rest. Dr. McCoy and Lt. Sulu explore an uninhabited planet in the Omicron Delta region as a candidate for shore leave, but McCoy sees a white rabbit followed by a blond girl from "Alice in Wonderland," and Sulu finds an antique revolver.

Captain Kirk explores the planet, and encounters Finnegan, an upperclassman who picked on Kirk when he was at the Academy, and he meets Ruth, an old girlfriend. Other members of the landing party see animals and historical figures.

The landing party meets the Caretaker of the planet, which was designed as an amusement park for the Caretaker's advanced race, creating simulations of whatever someone is thinking. At the Caretaker's invitation, the Enterprise crew uses the amusement planet for its shore leave.
IIRC, McCoy actually dies during the episode when the park generates simulations based on his fears.
 

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I just caught last nights episode with my sister. at first we were a bit too busy pointing out where we had seen some of the actor's to really understand what was going down. But once we finished that I actually enjoyed it.

I personally didn't see Locke the little "twist" with locke (don't want to spoil it if some haven't seen it) probably because this was my first episode.

What's up with the transmission?

but I think I'll try and catch next week's ep. I'm glad I've got time shift so I can catch it after America's Next Top Model, :p
 

dreaded_beast said:
Personally, I would rather have known going in that it was not "supernatural" and was just a "trick". That's just me though :)

I try to put myself in a particular frame of mind for the movie I go too. For example, I don't go to a Jackie Chan movie for the deep story, so I am a bit more lenient in terms of story. So for a movie that I am expecting to be a "sci-fi, horror" and it turns out to be something else, it dissappoints me a bit since I am not in the frame of mind for that particular type of movie.

I didn't hear anything about it being supernatural, so I wasn't in the frame of mind for that. Mysterious, yes. Science fiction, no. I think reality, in this case, would be more interesting than some arbitrary magical force that gives them whatever they want or fear (and how does it decide? Being stranded is probably some people's worse fear, but being rescued is probably their greatest desire). I'll be extremely disappointed if this turns into "Buffy's Island", with the fear of the week.

In other news, Locke is cool. A bit of a liar, but cool.

Cheers
Nell.
 

Negative Zero said:
and i still say that i don't believe it was a bear of any sort. the sots were too vague and too quick. i'm certain we're meant to think it was a bear. but i ain't buying it just yet.
~NegZ

They did the same thing with the boar. I think they're just embarrassed to show they were too cheap to go out and film real animals, and made do with stuffed ones on tracks.

Cynical, I know. But the animals keep jarring my willing suspension - even the little glimpses don't look real.

:-/
Nell.
 

Another really good episode. Locke was very interesting. Who he actually was, and who the islanders think he is are two very different people. Which is a theme in the show, of course, but few more so than Locke.

However, I'm still not buying the 'wishes come true/dream into reality' idea, at least not yet. If it is a visualization to reality concept, it's a very strange or limited one. So far, we've only gotten two elements that can't be resolved (with varying degrees of believability) to something normal: namely the monster and the mysterious man-in-suit. While Locke's 'miracle' certainly is dramatic, it's not beyond the realm of reason that the accident itself might have done it. Neuroscience is wiggy that way (of course, it could also only be temporary or be damaging him in a completely different way...we don't know).

But if the island is granting thoughts, it's doing it in an odd way. Consider:

If Walt summoned the bear by reading a comic book, why didn't it appear to Walt, instead of half-way across the island? And why the polar bear, when his desire for his dog Vincent must have been much, much more intense? For that matter, how about his dad, actively searching for the dog, and he couldn't find him?

If we presume that Locke got his legs back from a wish, shouldn't he have had to wake up first to have the wish? A better question is how his legs are working so well, but we really don't know if he's been routinely exercising them in therapy, or how he lost the use of them, four years ago.

For that matter, if they were getting what they desired or feared....what's the deal with the french-woman's message? I can accept they might hear a 'you're doomed' message (although they were all clearly hoping to get a message out, to be saved), but the cryptic nature of the message, it's being in French and the strange details (such as the iterative count and guesses to its significance) make it hard for me to believe that it was by desire. I think the comic book may have been a red herring.

Consider also that we've got 48 people (49 at one point), and they clearly all have some pretty powerful desires and fears right now: none of which appear to be being acted upon by the island. So while it's a good theory, I don't believe in it.

The Forbidden Planet thing, though...that I can consider.

The big question of the episode was: what did Locke see, or not see? The follow-up question is: did Locke kill the boar, and if not, what will happen the next time they hunt?

At this point, I'm thinking that Locke didn't kill the boar, but instead dragged the corpse that the monster left behind. I don't think that the monster eats it's kills (just like with the pilot) and isn't hunting for food. Why it is hunting and what it hunts is another question entirely. Whatever the creature actually looked like was either too fantastic for Locke to accept or perhaps it did something to him. It's obvious the father doesn't believe him, but doesn't know what to say.

I do think it's interesting how thick the layer of secrecy has become, so quickly. You have several distinct groups:

  • Those who've 'seen' the monster
  • those who know about the broadcast
  • those who know that Kate is a criminal
  • those who know that Kate was placing a transmitter
  • those who've seen the sneaker-wearing man-in-suit

Now, here's the interesting thing: only one character belongs to all these groups. Jack. Remove the man-sighting, and you've got two: Jack and Kate.

Hmmmm......
 
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Some of my thoughts.

I don't think the doctor is a real doctor. He might have gone to school to try and learn the family biz but I think he snapped. I have a feeling a paitent may have died on him when he was an intern and he couldn't handle it. Dropped out of medical school. He tried everything to save the bounty hunter but in the end had to kill him. I think the guy he saw was from his deranged mind.

I missed the first 2 episodes so I didn't really see the polar bear thing.
 

RedShirtNo5 said:
And since I'm a RedShirt, I have to mention this:


IIRC, McCoy actually dies during the episode when the park generates simulations based on his fears.

I've actually had that in the back of my mind since reading people's theories after the first episode...
 

WizarDru:
consider this; in support of the thoughts=reality idea, the main two people who possibly have displayed manifestations are Locke and Walt. it doesn't seem a stretch to deduce in Locke's case, the fact that he is a clearly slightly off-balance mentally (the unhealthy attachment to the chic on the phone, likely a 900 number) and his clear and unyeilding determination to exceed his limitations may make him more receptive to that sort of thing.

in Walt's case, as a child, his mind is likely more open to a lot of the things that adulthood teaches the rest of us to ignore/discount. however his immaturity/inexperience may not give him enough control or even awareness to direct his manifestations in any precise manner. indeed, the more actively he wants something, the harder it might be for him to actually manifest it.

same goes for the rest of the survivors. the collective active want to be rescued might be just what's preventing it. another possibility could be that this effect cannot affect anything beyond the island. further, since the rest of the survivors may not have whatever motivating factor required by this effect, or at least in generous enough helpings, then it's only their more generally collective subconcious thoughts that most of them have in common that might be manifesting.

i've stated before that i think there is a sentient force/entity/creature on the island manipulating events. that may also be why things seem to be random. we may not understand its motivations or even it's way of reasoning.

i too don't think that Locke killed the boar. your suggestion that the creature killed it and that he simpley took the already dead boar has a lot of merit, i think. i also think there's more to Jack than he's letting on (like everyone else, i suppose) Dagger75's idea did occur to me briefly, but i hadn't paid it much attention at the time. you may be onto something there.

~NegZ
 

i came away thinking the bigbad killed the boar as well. But after that i got this idea about locke...

what if the bigbad killed the boar and then gave it to locke as a peace offering?

What if the bigbad is indeed some sort of beastwho turned against his "cruel scientists" long ago but is in fact, ala perhaps a frankenstein twist, not a bad guy, just monstrous.

Locke, gets the offered boar, realizes this beast is not "an enemy" but also realizes the majority of the mob might not get it and is keeping it secret until he can get things a little more in hand.

It would be a good storytelling twist for the "fear of unknown" to keep this beastie as " the threat" only to find out later that its more of a misunderstood, and monstrous, potential ally.

just a thought.
 

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