Low level, low magic

[Bendris Noulg]

Funnily, I do it similar for my low level campaigns. No treasure for a long time, then ONE magical sword, but that's a big one.

Makes the whole thing more King Arthus like.

Ditto! To illustrate, my campaign won't be overflowing with a multitude of +1, +2 or +3 weapons. Instead, PCs may find themselves without magic weapons, but then, after a lengthy quest (ending about 12th Level), they find that they have acquired some of the most potent items in the world (weapons of +10 enhancement or higher, potent staffs, great tomes of power, and other such things). However, on each character's equipment list, the full magic item quoto isn't above 5 or 6 items each (3-4 of moderate potency and 1-2 of incredible potency).

So the magics there, but as I posted earlier, it's a question of how much is to be had and how much is really needed.

 

[hong]

There's no dislike of magic, but rather a question of "how much?" When there's so much magic that the game becomes less about what the characters can do and more about what their items can do, it changes the tone of game play.

You say this like it's a negative thing.

I mean, I guess we could start playing intelligent epic weapons with +20 worth of enhancements and get the DM to NPC some 20th Level goombas to cart us around, but that's not really the point either.

You don't seem to be very coherent. Perhaps it would be a good idea in the future to avoid posting while intoxicated.

And it's not about trucking through the mud slogging it out with kobolds (although the conditions of a muddy battle filled with Kobolds possessing various Class Levels should be a challenge at any level, which is the point of making Kobolds capable of having Class Levels, isn't it?). For example, in most of the genre's literature, what could be referred to as "high level characters" move about on horse and boat (carraige, train, etc.) without running into the endless bordem of random encounters many folks like to use as their example of low-powered gaming.

Do you really think the prime attraction of high-level play is being able to avoid random encounters?

Really, after Gandolf leave's Frodo's place and goes to check out Mordor, how many times is his trip interupted by random orc encounters? Why, none, believe it or not.

What on earth are you babbling about now?

So why do people like to use such rediculous and assinine examples to discredit something that they (clearly) have no understanding of?

Exactly. So stop being rediculous [sic] and assinine [sic].

Are personal experiences with a bad DM causing folks to assume that any deviation from the high-powered goodies that WotC tries to dictate as "normal" D&D must be a bad game?

Isn't that called prejudice? Yeah, I thought so, too...

My god, it's full of straw.

At any rate, it's not about a dislike of magic, else we'd be playing Traveler or Gamma World or something else. It's about magic being an element of the game, not an over-riding requirement that someone else decided to build into the system and call "standard" D&D.

That's one hell of a chip you have on your shoulder. Was there a reason for this little burble, or are you just glad to see me?

(Although, in all honesty, it doesn't resemble any D&D game I've played in during the past 20 years... Granted, I was in games 23 years ago that "standard" D&D resembles, but most of us were munchkins in 7th Grade anyway, so does that really count?)

My TEN-INCH TITANIUM PENIS can whack your TEN-INCH TITANIUM PENIS any day.

 

[hong]

Ditto! To illustrate, my campaign won't be overflowing with a multitude of +1, +2 or +3 weapons. Instead, PCs may find themselves without magic weapons, but then, after a lengthy quest (ending about 12th Level), they find that they have acquired some of the most potent items in the world (weapons of +10 enhancement or higher, potent staffs, great tomes of power, and other such things). However, on each character's equipment list, the full magic item quoto isn't above 5 or 6 items each (3-4 of moderate potency and 1-2 of incredible potency).

Hong's Fourth Law of Fantasy: the only thing worse than a player geek telling you about his character is a DM geek telling you about his world.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Hong's Fourth Law of Fantasy: the only thing worse than a player geek telling you about his character is a DM geek telling you about his world.

Ben's First Law of ENWorld: Ignore Hong no matter how trollish he gets or how often his trolling is ignored by the moderators.

 

[Darklone]

Hong's Fourth Law of Fantasy: the only thing worse than a player geek telling you about his character is a DM geek telling you about his world.

I thought a DM geek telling others about his games/players/houserules?

Or was it Law 3?

 

[Mystery Man]

Funnily, I do it similar for my low level campaigns. No treasure for a long time, then ONE magical sword, but that's a big one.

Makes the whole thing more King Arthus like.

And its always (or at least it should be) a memorable encounter. The kind they talk about even after months of game time and other encounters.

 

[Darklone]

And its always (or at least it should be) a memorable encounter. The kind they talk about even after months of game time and other encounters.

Right, I call it the "Hackmaster +12 Syndrome"

 

[der_kluge]

As it turns out, one of my players read my post here, and we started having a discussion about low-level games. Seems he already has something in mind for when this campaign finishes that will be low-level, low-magic, possibly using Midnight, or something similar. Maybe this post will convince him to increase his post count to "2" and talk about what it is he has in mind. It's a fairly interesting concept.

 

[Gothmog]

You say this like it's a negative thing.

You don't seem to be very coherent. Perhaps it would be a good idea in the future to avoid posting while intoxicated.

Do you really think the prime attraction of high-level play is being able to avoid random encounters?

What on earth are you babbling about now?

Exactly. So stop being rediculous [sic] and assinine [sic].

My god, it's full of straw.

That's one hell of a chip you have on your shoulder. Was there a reason for this little burble, or are you just glad to see me?

Look! The pet troll is out of his cage. Coochie-coo little troll.

My TEN-INCH TITANIUM PENIS can whack your TEN-INCH TITANIUM PENIS any day.

Uh, ok. Well, no matter what happens, you can still regenerate! Just make sure Eric's Grandma doesn't see you doing it!

 

[Gothmog]

There's no dislike of magic, but rather a question of "how much?" When there's so much magic that the game becomes less about what the characters can do and more about what their items can do, it changes the tone of game play. I mean, I guess we could start playing intelligent epic weapons with +20 worth of enhancements and get the DM to NPC some 20th Level goombas to cart us around, but that's not really the point either.

And it's not about trucking through the mud slogging it out with kobolds (although the conditions of a muddy battle filled with Kobolds possessing various Class Levels should be a challenge at any level, which is the point of making Kobolds capable of having Class Levels, isn't it?). For example, in most of the genre's literature, what could be referred to as "high level characters" move about on horse and boat (carraige, train, etc.) without running into the endless bordem of random encounters many folks like to use as their example of low-powered gaming. Really, after Gandolf leave's Frodo's place and goes to check out Mordor, how many times is his trip interupted by random orc encounters? Why, none, believe it or not.

So why do people like to use such rediculous and assinine examples to discredit something that they (clearly) have no understanding of? Are personal experiences with a bad DM causing folks to assume that any deviation from the high-powered goodies that WotC tries to dictate as "normal" D&D must be a bad game?

Isn't that called prejudice? Yeah, I thought so, too...

At any rate, it's not about a dislike of magic, else we'd be playing Traveler or Gamma World or something else. It's about magic being an element of the game, not an over-riding requirement that someone else decided to build into the system and call "standard" D&D. (Although, in all honesty, it doesn't resemble any D&D game I've played in during the past 20 years... Granted, I was in games 23 years ago that "standard" D&D resembles, but most of us were munchkins in 7th Grade anyway, so does that really count?)

Very well stated. To each his own, but I have to say I think you are right on regarding the game being more about characters, and not the equipment or powers.