Mad at Paizo?

Mercador

Explorer
So I'm angry because the dying of the light (end of PF1)? I still believe they are doing an error but only time will tell.
 

eyeheartawk

Explorer
So I'm angry because the dying of the light (end of PF1)? I still believe they are doing an error but only time will tell.
Ultimately, why would anyone be mad at Paizo? What stone in the decade of PF1 publishing has Paizo left un-turned? Between all the big supplement books, adventure paths and other various guides there's so much stuff that you'll never get through it all. That's of course also ignoring the absolute glut of 3.x material for the decade prior too. You want a beastiary 12?
 

Mercador

Explorer
Yeah, that's what I don't get, why I'm still mad at them, I don't have any reason beyond purchasing "not-the-current" version books. That's just money. It's deeper than that, maybe I don't like being out-of-date.
 

zztong

Explorer
You don't ultimately have to have a reason beyond emotions.

My own struggle is not with Paizo, but with a changing dynamic at the game table. What had been a game group that was all content with one set of rules is now a game group that is split. Its convenient to point to Paizo as the agent for that change even if its obvious that wasn't Paizo's intent. Also, it isn't necessarily a bad change for the group to embrace multiple game systems. It is just change versus inertia. You feel the way you feel. Eventually a new normal will be found.
 

darjr

I crit!
It’s understandable. If not really cool.

There is a version you like and your heavily invested in. The new version may not do what you like or invalidate much of what you have and like. Plus it may drive players and DMs from the game you love.

Just, it’s not something they did to make you mad. It’s a labor of love and a business. They have to try and thread the needle. It isn’t easy. And sometimes it means people get left behind.

But seeing that they are keeping the older version in print and that’s it’s OGL, it will never be dead. Think of it this way, even though they’ve moved on they’ve also made it so you don’t have too, maybe to their own detriment in sales. And they did it because it was the right thing to do.
 

Mercador

Explorer
Thanks! I still have a lot to learn, even at my age :p Too much reason, not enough emotions.

The way I see they are doing a mistake is exactly what you told, it will split the community and I'm not sure they are big enough to split their community and go beyond it, not during this time. Though, ultimately, it will provide good learnings for PF3 after the disappointed DnD 6th.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
Thanks! I still have a lot to learn, even at my age :p Too much reason, not enough emotions.

The way I see they are doing a mistake is exactly what you told, it will split the community and I'm not sure they are big enough to split their community and go beyond it, not during this time. Though, ultimately, it will provide good learnings for PF3 after the disappointed DnD 6th.
Just remember people played AD&D long after it went out of print.

As long as you can get players no problem.
 

MichaelSomething

Adventurer
Thanks! I still have a lot to learn, even at my age Too much reason, not enough emotions.

The way I see they are doing a mistake is exactly what you told, it will split the community and I'm not sure they are big enough to split their community and go beyond it, not during this time. Though, ultimately, it will provide good learnings for PF3 after the disappointed DnD 6th.
Are there enough people out there who would buy 1E stuff forever to sustain Paizo?
 
I'm not mad at Paizo. They've decided to stop supporting a product I was buying, in favor of a product I don't like and have no use for. Third Party Publishers are picking up the slack and continuing to provide new content for the product I liked... content I largely like better than the original, deprecated materials.

Story sounds familiar for some reason, like I've been here before.
 

Jharet

Explorer
I've had time to process this since Second Edition was announced last year. I'm not mad at Paizo. As a company, they have to publish products to survive. I'm just annoyed by the creation of Second Edition for a game that I felt was perfect - for me. Yes, I can keep playing P1E, but the questions start to arise as to how the edition change will affect my games and my resources.

I've informed my players that I'm running P1E. I bought all of the books, several PDFs and Hero Lab data packages to match. This is too much of an investment to just switch to something because it's new and shiny.

Both of my active GMs already started running Second Edition games, which cost me the chance to play in one. Fortunately, the second GM still runs his ongoing P1E game in addition to his new 2E game.

The other question becomes how long will my Hero Lab be maintained before Wolfslair decides to no longer support it? How long will the d20pfsrd be maintained online? How long will reviewers once dedicated to Pathfinder material still write about unknown P1E material? How long until my second GM decides he doesn't want to run P1E anymore?

Simply put, I'm not rebuying a bookcase full of books no matter what. Paizo lost me as a customer with the exception of pawns, minis and maps because they decided to no longer create products for me. If their answer is that I should rebuy all of those books, it will never happen. I'll just quit playing altogether.
 

Green Onceler

Explorer
Paizo lost me as a customer with the exception of pawns, minis and maps because they decided to no longer create products for me.
I am also very unenthusiastic to rebuy all the books again for what I see as, at best, questionable benefit.

I'm still a Starfinder customer and I'll keep buying the Flip Tiles line. Not going to buy 2e Pawns, though. Something about 2e's art really doesn't appeal to me.
 

EthanSental

Explorer
If you’ve bought the data packs from hero labs for the various 1e stuff, it’s good to go. I haven’t bought any since 2013 and mine loads and just fine.

as far as the rebuying books sentiments....I understand that as well. It’s a tough decision every time a game system you like reboots. I was slow to move to 3e since we like 2e for 11 years. Eventually we changed slowly to a 3e game then pathfinder then 5e. Hopefully you keep a group going that enjoys P1e for as long as you and the group is having fun as that’s all that really matters at the end of a session.
 

S'mon

Legend
On my side, it's not just the art, there is something amiss about this but I can't pinpointed it (yet).
Most of The Iconics look like they've been hit by an Energy Drain spell! :-O

1e:


2e:


I'm definitely not buying another bookshelf-full of Pathfinder material. I guess if my PF2 GM succeeds in her wicked plan to get me hooked on the game I may buy the core book & bestiary eventually.
 

EthanSental

Explorer
Wayne didn’t put much effort in making it look updated. Axe on the hip, stance and holding the sword but then again, he might have been told to make it look similar to the previous edition. 2nd look, stance is similar but slouchy looking in the 2e drawing.
 
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Parmandur

Legend
Most of The Iconics look like they've been hit by an Energy Drain spell! :-O

1e:


2e:


I'm definitely not buying another bookshelf-full of Pathfinder material. I guess if my PF2 GM succeeds in her wicked plan to get me hooked on the game I may buy the core book & bestiary eventually.
Those are both pretty painfully old fashioned....
 

Bardic Dave

Explorer
Those are both pretty painfully old fashioned....
Wayne's style is so distinct, I'm not sure if you can really say it's "old fashioned". His style isn't really typical of a particular era in fantasy art; it's kind of just its own thing. I don't think any other artists really produced or produce art in a similar style.

Having said that, his art was so ubiquitous in fantasy gaming products from 2000-2010 (Magic cards, World of Warcraft TCG, D&D (particularly Eberron), Pathfinder, etc.) that I can see why you'd have strong associations between his art and a particular era of fantasy gaming. He used to be very much in vogue, but is perhaps less so these days.
 
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