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Mad at Paizo?

How could CR turn you, or anyone else, to not like D&D all together? I would Like some context to those feelings.
One of the great things about D&D is that there is no "right" way to play it. Over the decades, like most here I have played a range of different campaigns, both as player and DM, and found something to enjoy in almost every one. And of course aging has also brought greater certainty about taste preferences, but I also still enjoy being exposed to different and new flavors.

That said, because there are so many flavors of D&D, we all tend to gravite to some more than others, and some we might even find "off-putting."

But to address your question, I personally wouldn't stop liking D&D based upon a social media stream or anyone else's style of play because of the inherent quality of D&D being what you make of it, but I also get where @Haffrung is coming in that CR represents one of the biggest "public faces" of D&D; if you don't identify with that particular expression of the game, or find it off-putting to whatever degree, then there is an association involved, and some degree of turn-off makes sense.

As a somewhat related example, I have sometimes felt the need to qualify my interest in science fiction and fantasy, because of what people often associate with such things. This is not because I'm ashamed of my interests, but because I'm rather finicky about what SFF I like - and there's a lot of SFF out there that I consider not at all to my tastes, not to mention of poor quality (which I'm not saying CR is).

Similarly, if I told someone that I played D&D and they said, "Oh, you mean like that show Critical Role?" I might clarify by saying, "Yeah, but there are a lot of different styles of play."

I mean, in a way D&D is like a genre, and not everyone is going to like every expression of that genre. I like a lot of hip-hop, but there's also a lot that isn't for me, even off-putting, and if someone asked if I liked hip-hop, I might feel the need to clarify what I like and don't like. Or I like sports and follow a couple rather closely, but am not at all into "fandom" - I don't own any jerseys or paraphernalia, I don't attend many games, etc.

While I have been into D&D for most of my life and love SFF and imagination in general, I also don't at all resonate with most of "geek culture." I pick and choose my SFF, I am into D&D but wouldn't consider myself truly "hardcore" in that while I enjoy playing, I could also live without it and scratch the most important aspects of that itch in other ways; that is, my very favorite aspects of D&D aren't the sole purview of D&D (like imaginative stories and world-building).

My point being, folks such of myself that aren't "dedicated geeks" or identify with geek culture might not like being associated with geek culture--not because there is anything wrong with geek culture, but because it just isn't who they are (or I am).
 
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TheSword

Explorer
Lets lay the cards out... I find CR and Matt Mercer’s style pretentious and overly theatrical. I’m not a fan of the players that take part. Neither do I like the soap opera like discussion and debriefing of the sessions after. I don’t doubt that a lot of people like it. However it isn’t my cup of tea. It’s possible that I find it off putting because I’m British and I prefer things a little more understated. Or perhaps the accent jars. It doesn’t really matter the reason. It is my opinion. I wouldn’t normally share the details because it can be seen as negative and doesn’t do anything to change the minds of those that are already fans. However those who find it impossible to believe some might find it off-putting, believe me, it is.

However like it or not MM is now seen as the Ambassador/Paragon of DMing. There are you tube blogs, endless forum posts, product lines discussing and referencing CR. He even appears on my Syrinscape downloads as character voices. It is ubiquitous and you can barely google a D&D topic without CR or MM popping up somewhere. I do not blame them for being popular. Neither do I expect them to do anything different. They are a brand and influencer and they do what they do very effectively. Please allow me to feel uncomfortable as I feel the effect of that influence.

Edited: brand and influencer.
 
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Campbell

Relaxed Intensity
Just as a curiosity. Some people do feel extremely threatened and their enjoyment of the game suffers.
I do not think it should. There is a tremendous amount of diversity in the way people play and run roleplaying games. I see this fundamentally as a good thing. Other people playing games in a way you do not enjoy should not be seen as a threat to the way that you play. This extends to people playing other games that you do not enjoy as well.

I do not think we should be in the habit of shaming people for wanting different things than we personally want.
 

GaiusMarius

Villager
Some people base too much of their identity upon their interests: sports, cars, rpgs, guns, hunting, running, biking, tv shows, movies etc and freak out when they think someone is enjoying it in the wrong way. Other times (with nerds especially sadly) so much of their identity is based upon the appeal it has to them that they can't take it if it appeals to others too.
 

MichaelSomething

Adventurer
Imagine a streaming show where the players gather around elaborately crafted Dwarven Forge dungeon setups, with the game focused almost exclusively on tactical maneuver and combat in the dungeon. The DM is adversarial and mocks the players relentlessly, while the players fist-pump, high-five, and do shots of jaegermeister whenever they win a combat. Each episode wraps with a graphic showing the total kills and GP gained by the players. And this stream is so popular that it defines D&D in the popular consciousness.

Now, if this stream's approach to D&D wasn't your cup of tea, if you found it off-putting, this could - in a small way - make D&D feel to you like something that wasn't your jam.
I'm of the opinion that a rising tide benefits all boats.

Or that sounds like a group trying to defeat a tournament module at Gen Con, and maybe that would make a good stream.

Or that people have been playing D&D different from the "assumed" way ever since there was D&D and a stream isn't gonna change that.
 

Haffrung

Explorer
People realize I have no problem with Critical Role, right? Someone asked why a gamer might find CR put them off D&D, so I presented a scenario to illustrate why that might be the case. I personally don't really care what other people play or like.

Funny how threads become what people think they're about rather than what people actually write.
 

Haffrung

Explorer
Some people base too much of their identity upon their interests: sports, cars, rpgs, guns, hunting, running, biking, tv shows, movies etc and freak out when they think someone is enjoying it in the wrong way. Other times (with nerds especially sadly) so much of their identity is based upon the appeal it has to them that they can't take it if it appeals to others too.
Yes, it does seem to be a feature of nerdom that even the slightest hint that someone doesn't like a property brings its fans out to man the ramparts with trumpets blaring and banners flying. Never really understand why people get so upset that others don't enjoy the same things.
 

Zardnaar

Adventurer
Yes, it does seem to be a feature of nerdom that even the slightest hint that someone doesn't like a property brings its fans out to man the ramparts with trumpets blaring and banners flying. Never really understand why people get so upset that others don't enjoy the same things.
Yep I don't like Ravenloft or Dragonlance and to change it to suit my tastes would alienate the fans of those settings.

So rather than insist they mutilate the settings I just avoid them..
 

Xenonnonex

Explorer
People realize I have no problem with Critical Role, right? Someone asked why a gamer might find CR put them off D&D, so I presented a scenario to illustrate why that might be the case. I personally don't really care what other people play or like.

Funny how threads become what people think they're about rather than what people actually write.
You made a post accusing CR of being actors theatrically playing D&D. Which others called you out on. Then you made up a scenario that is widely divergent from what CR is. Or from what other livestreamed games are.

From an outsider looking in I find this terribly amusing.

Just ignore it. If it is affecting you so much don't seek it out. Only you can make it as visible as you want it to be.
 

Xenonnonex

Explorer
Yes, it does seem to be a feature of nerdom that even the slightest hint that someone doesn't like a property brings its fans out to man the ramparts with trumpets blaring and banners flying. Never really understand why people get so upset that others don't enjoy the same things.
I think what some people are taking issue with is your saying certain ways of roleplaying is wrong. And contrived.

Imagine a scenario where a friend of yours gets really in character and plays everything bombastically. If this friend too theatrical? Too contrived?

Because roleplaying is about degrees. Doing things in character is roleplaying in my eyes. It does not matter how you roleplay. If your having fun in character and telling a story together? Your roleplaying.
 

TheSword

Explorer
Yes, it does seem to be a feature of nerdom that even the slightest hint that someone doesn't like a property brings its fans out to man the ramparts with trumpets blaring and banners flying. Never really understand why people get so upset that others don't enjoy the same things.
It’s not just nerfdom. People get very attached to their football teams and get pretty passionate about every aspect of them. Luckily in nerfdom, thugs supporting Critically Role don’t go around getting drunk and beating up Matt Coleville supporters at conventions.

Let’s be honest, this unhealthy attachment is used and relied upon by those subjects to make money. In advertising, in merchandising, in subscriptions. Money money money.

Critical Role is no different. It taps into a part of human nature. The fact that it’s streamed live, the ability to commentate on twitch, the YouTube comments, forum posts etc all designed to make us feel connected to our subject.

As with all things there are pro’s and cons.
 

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