Mad at Paizo?

[darjr]

Edit to say its a month not a day.

Hmmm so let’s see. Currently the core book is at 1234 ASR. From what I’ve read at other places that’s hundreds of books a day. This calculator tries to give a solid number which seems on the low side but for a sales rank of 1200 according to them that’s almost 600 books a month. Is that good sales? @Morrus ?

I think so. It’s been much higher for most of the month.

 

[darjr]

Forgot the link. FREE Amazon Sales Estimator - Predict Your Sales | Rank Calculator

I don’t know about extras at GenCon. Though I’d like to know.

 

[darjr]

@Xenonnonex I don’t doubt you, I have no idea. But I’d be interested if you could point out a link or a quote? If you can’t or really don’t want too thats OK with me too. I get it.

 

[Retreater]

@Xenonnonex I don’t doubt you, I have no idea. But I’d be interested if you could point out a link or a quote? If you can’t or really don’t want too thats OK with me too. I get it.

I can speak to it, having gone by the Paizo booth numerous times and saw massive pallets of PF2 books there. They did move a good many early in the Con, but by Saturday and Sunday, the stacks didn't move much. Also, there were large stacks available at other retailers (for those who didn't want to wait in the Paizo "line" - which lasted only two days). There was a booth (Foam Brain) that had huge stacks of the Rulebook and Bestiary, probably about 5' tall, that they weren't moving at all. Other companies that I can't remember also were reselling the books.
Now maybe we need to congratulate Paizo on bringing plenty of product for all their fans? However, I think they may have overestimated demand. Past GenCons I remember them selling out of the 1st edition Beta Playtest, 1st edition core rules, Advanced Players Guide, Starfinder, and more.
This can show a lot of things. Perhaps a lot of fans were buying at online retailers such as Amazon, or that Paizo has the resources to make huge print runs (which they didn't have with the 1st edition core rules). Or maybe it is tanking?

 

[Parmandur]

I can speak to it, having gone by the Paizo booth numerous times and saw massive pallets of PF2 books there. They did move a good many early in the Con, but by Saturday and Sunday, the stacks didn't move much. Also, there were large stacks available at other retailers (for those who didn't want to wait in the Paizo "line" - which lasted only two days). There was a booth (Foam Brain) that had huge stacks of the Rulebook and Bestiary, probably about 5' tall, that they weren't moving at all. Other companies that I can't remember also were reselling the books.
Now maybe we need to congratulate Paizo on bringing plenty of product for all their fans? However, I think they may have overestimated demand. Past GenCons I remember them selling out of the 1st edition Beta Playtest, 1st edition core rules, Advanced Players Guide, Starfinder, and more.
This can show a lot of things. Perhaps a lot of fans were buying at online retailers such as Amazon, or that Paizo has the resources to make huge print runs (which they didn't have with the 1st edition core rules). Or maybe it is tanking?

It shows that there was a miscalculation for Gen Con: maybe everyone bought from Amazon to save a few bucks and avoid the lines.

 

[ccs]

They've stabilized at a pretty great place, selling better than Starfinder or Call of Cthulu. Is it the best selling RPG of all time? No. If it needed to be they had deeper problems as a company.

The Gen Con thing is weird, though.

Maybe there were a lot of people like me this time?
I had a quite busy GC planned. I'd have had zero time to read the book(s). And I wouldn't get the discount my local shop gives me.
Wich meant that if I'd bought them there I'd be lugging them around for a day for no reason. Or at least back to the car on Sunday.... So why not just wait until I got home & pick them up in a few days when I'm going to be at the shop anyways?
Others I suspect saved even more on Amazon. But my supporting my local shop is enlightened self interest.

Or maybe they simply had their sales estimates off? It happens you know.

 

[Parmandur]

Maybe there were a lot of people like me this time?
I had a quite busy GC planned. I'd have had zero time to read the book(s). And I wouldn't get the discount my local shop gives me.
Wich meant that if I'd bought them there I'd be lugging them around for a day for no reason. Or at least back to the car on Sunday.... So why not just wait until I got home & pick them up in a few days when I'm going to be at the shop anyways?
Others I suspect saved even more on Amazon. But my supporting my local shop is enlightened self interest.

Or maybe they simply had their sales estimates off? It happens you know.

Well, that last part for sure, Paizo and third parties. Hard to extrapolate a broader pattern from that fact, though.

 

[ccs]

On a recent news post about PF2E Bestiary 2, I was wondering if it was deseperation that announcing stuff so much in advance, to which point Morrus told me that I might be an outlier;



To which point I'm starting to wonder why I am so mad at them? It's totally normal for them to go forward and wanting to renew their franchise, DnD did that 5 times already (and I guess we'll see 6th by 2025). So why am I that mad at them? The only thing that I could find is that I'm sad to see all those books going to waste but that's only a material issue. It's like I feel betrayed.

Am I alone with this sentiment? It's a not a joke question, I'm truly curious about this.

Are you relatively new to PF1 &/or thinking about all the $ you've spent (wasted?) on a (now) previous edition?
Are you concerned that you won't be able to continue playing PF1?
Do you not like PF2?

 

[Campbell]

Lisa Stevens addressed sales here.

Did the books sell out at GenCon?

Nope. But that was by design. We literally took more books than we could actually sell given the number of cashiers that we had there. I didn't want a repeat of the Starfinder release where we ran out on Friday. So we took quite a lot. And sold more than we have ever sold of anything at GenCon. So it was a huge success for us.

I agree that it is not really the best optics, but if you take them at their word they had a phenomenal Gencon. Paizo as a company has always been pretty straightforward. That's why I remained a fan of the company even though I was very much a Fourth Edition fan.

 

[darjr]

to bring it back cause I think I derailed yet another thread. Sorry.

I remember Lisa Stevens saying something about keeping the company small so that they could avoid the pitfalls of the past. Like the book churn treadmill, or the edition treadmill. I know they gotta do what they gotta do, but it does “seem” like those ideas were left behind and then Paizo fell into the same trap. Even if the book churn was a fraction of the 3.5 WotC book release cycle. I also know, we’re I still playing Pathfinder, that I would have appreciated something more like the 3.5 to Pathfinder change for the PF1 to PF2 change. Then maybe they could have put out that new style of Golarian setting, advancing the timeline, and doing new and different kind of cool books and adventure paths.

My biggest early frustration with 4e was the stark incompatible systems. And part of why I liked 5e is it was more compatible to older stuff in ways that mattered most even if not directly rules compatible.

I think that kind of break has happened with PF1 and PF2. And that would be frustrating.