Mad idea: taking a level of exhaustion to regain a once-per-long-rest ability?

[robus]

It seems I'm constantly wanting the feel of effort expended when playing this game. Apparently I want the characters to suffer (or at least give that appearance )

It strikes me that it might be cool to allow once per day abilities to be reused if the character suffers a level of exhaustion in the process (perhaps with a Con check to see if it's even possible under the circumstances?). It would be a way for characters to push themselves beyond their limits in exceptional circumstances.

Cool or game-breaking?

 

[Phazonfish]

In what span of time do you regain the ability and take the exhaustion? Over a short rest? As an action? Anytime, no action required?

Can a spell slot be regained in this manner?

Seems kinda strong on characters that don't suffer much from a level of exhaustion. Combo's really well with greater restoration.

Haven't looked at the distribution of long rest abilities, so that probably plays a pretty big role in balancing this.

 

[robus]

The exhaustion can only be recovered from a long rest but the character would have to suffer with the exhaustion effects until the next long rest (unless there was some spell to remove a level of exhaustion)

 

[Klaudius Rex]

i dont think its a good idea to take a level of exhaustion to regain something else.
it doesn't make sense.

However, im considering making exhaustion a more important part of the game. Giving exhaustion levels for all sorts of things like suffering a critical hit, becoming bloodied, going on a chase, and other things upon my prerogative as DM. I may decide to write a post regarding this. (Im also considering new rules regarding wear/tear on arms and armor--magic items included!)

I do worry that it may encourage the group to take even more long rests, but im the type of DM who rolls random encounters during rest times.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Why does recharging my abilities make me thirstier? This is kind of the same flaw with exhaustion and anything that it's used for apart from starvation and thirst.

In general I think that the current exhaustion rules are a shemozzle, and the best thing to do with them is to restrict their usage as much as possible. So I'm afraid I will have to say that any new rule which interacts with them is doomed.

 

[Klaudius Rex]

i dont think its a good idea to take a level of exhaustion to regain something else.
it doesn't make sense.

However, im considering making exhaustion a more important part of the game. Giving exhaustion levels for all sorts of things like suffering a critical hit, becoming bloodied, going on a chase, and other things upon my prerogative as DM. I may decide to write a post regarding this. (Im also considering new rules regarding wear/tear on arms and armor--magic items included!)

I do worry that it may encourage the group to take even more long rests, but im the type of DM who rolls random encounters during rest times.

 

[robus]

i dont think its a good idea to take a level of exhaustion to regain something else.
it doesn't make sense.

However, im considering making exhaustion a more important part of the game. Giving exhaustion levels for all sorts of things like suffering a critical hit, becoming bloodied, going on a chase, and other things upon my prerogative as DM. I may decide to write a post regarding this. (Im also considering new rules regarding wear/tear on arms and armor--magic items included!)

I do worry that it may encourage the group to take even more long rests, but im the type of DM who rolls random encounters during rest times.

I think that is my desire - to make exhaustion more of an option in the game. So a player could risk taking a level of exhaustion in order to accomplish something dramatic. Push themselves to the limit.

I've posted something similar in the past regarding concentration spells where maintaining concentration for an extended period can be exhausting for a character. This is another variation on that I suppose.

 

[robus]

Why does recharging my abilities make me thirstier? This is kind of the same flaw with exhaustion and anything that it's used for apart from starvation and thirst.

In general I think that the current exhaustion rules are a shemozzle, and the best thing to do with them is to restrict their usage as much as possible. So I'm afraid I will have to say that any new rule which interacts with them is doomed.

Yeah if you don't like the exhaustion rules then you'll hate this idea

 

[Mistwell]

I think it would be fine, however I would take a level of exhaustion for each use of the ability. Which yes, it means Disadvantage on Ability Checks for the first use of something which right now doesn't come with any drawback. But looking at the Exhaustion levels, most players won't care much until they hit Exhaustion Level 3 (level 2 is speed is halved). Make every use of the ability a physically exhausting effort which leaves you feeling it's use afterwards. If you want to use it 5 times in a day and risk death, go for it.

 

[LordEntrails]

What about exhaustion for inspiration? A full daily ability seems ... strong.

To add more suffering, I would suggest lingering wounds and maybe a level of exhaustion each time you go unconscious.

 

[robus]

I think it would be fine, however I would take a level of exhaustion for each use of the ability. Which yes, it means Disadvantage on Ability Checks for the first use of something which right now doesn't come with any drawback. But looking at the Exhaustion levels, most players won't care much until they hit Exhaustion Level 3 (level 2 is speed is halved). Make every use of the ability a physically exhausting effort which leaves you feeling it's use afterwards. If you want to use it 5 times in a day and risk death, go for it.

Absolutely - every time you push past your limits you gain another level of exhaustion.

 

[Lost Soul]

I like this idea. It would allow exhaustion to be more of a factor in the game.

 

[robus]

What about exhaustion for inspiration? A full daily ability seems ... strong.

To add more suffering, I would suggest lingering wounds and maybe a level of exhaustion each time you go unconscious.

I'm already a fan of that. I.e. Each time you're restored to health you gain a level of exhaustion. There's great PDF on wounds and exhaustion: http://www.mindplaces.com/pictures/wound doc.pdf

 

[Mistwell]

Absolutely - every time you push past your limits you gain another level of exhaustion.

No, I mean the FIRST use as well. As in the one-a-day use you normally get - you'd get a level of exhaustion from it.

 

[schnee]

it means Disadvantage on Ability Checks for the first use of something which right now doesn't come with any drawback

It depends on your game. That could totally hose a skill monkey.

 

[robus]

No, I mean the FIRST use as well. As in the one-a-day use you normally get - you'd get a level of exhaustion from it.

Hmm - I don't think I would go for that... Why do you like that idea?

 

[mflayermonk]

Can you take on a level of exhaustion to replenish bardic inspiration dice, battlemaster dice, ki points, sorcery points. etc?

 

[MrHotter]

It seems I'm constantly wanting the feel of effort expended when playing this game. Apparently I want the characters to suffer (or at least give that appearance )

It strikes me that it might be cool to allow once per day abilities to be reused if the character suffers a level of exhaustion in the process (perhaps with a Con check to see if it's even possible under the circumstances?). It would be a way for characters to push themselves beyond their limits in exceptional circumstances.

Cool or game-breaking?

I like the concept, but I think you may need to come up with a list of abilites that can be reused. That way the players don't find a 'gotcha' that makes them overpowered. Add things to the list by the players request after you have a chance to think about it.

In novels, you always see the hero finding a way to push past human endurance to come up with the strength needed to win in a situation where they are in over their heads. I think that's what inspiration is supposed to be as well.

What I would worry about is having all the players suddenly using their daily abilities over and over when they know they get to the big bad boss fight. There are also some classes (like a rogue) that would not benefit much from this.

I may allow something like this at my table. Here's what I'm thinking:
Take a level of exhaustion to:

• Regain a spell slot (Spell level 3-4 is two levels of exhaustion, spell level 5 is three levels. Not avialable past 5)
• use a spell slot to cast a spell not memorized
• re-use an ability that refreshes on a long/short rest (subject to DM approval)
• re-roll a saving throw (including death saves)
  
  I'm not sure how I would handle superiority dice, ki, or rage. Should the player get all uses back, just one, or not have these be on the list as rechargeable by taking exhaustion?

 

[robus]

I like the concept, but I think you may need to come up with a list of abilites that can be reused. That way the players don't find a 'gotcha' that makes them overpowered. Add things to the list by the players request after you have a chance to think about it.

In novels, you always see the hero finding a way to push past human endurance to come up with the strength needed to win in a situation where they are in over their heads. I think that's what inspiration is supposed to be as well.

What I would worry about is having all the players suddenly using their daily abilities over and over when they know they get to the big bad boss fight. There are also some classes (like a rogue) that would not benefit much from this.

I may allow something like this at my table. Here's what I'm thinking:
Take a level of exhaustion to:

• Regain a spell slot (Spell level 3-4 is two levels of exhaustion, spell level 5 is three levels. Not avialable past 5)
• use a spell slot to cast a spell not memorized
• re-use an ability that refreshes on a long/short rest (subject to DM approval)
• re-roll a saving throw (including death saves)
  
  I'm not sure how I would handle superiority dice, ki, or rage. Should the player get all uses back, just one, or not have these be on the list as rechargeable by taking exhaustion?

Excellent points - and definitely agreed that some kind of guidelines are needed. I like the idea of higher spell slots taking more effort a lot!

 

[Mistwell]

It depends on your game. That could totally hose a skill monkey.

Then they shouldn't accept this new system which grants them the ability to use once-per-day abilities multiple times per day.