MAGIC Domain is Broken!
- Thread starter Larcen
- Start date
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
So the market value of a Wand of Identify is 750gp... but the base price for a wizard to make it is 5,750?
The clerics can sell them for nearly 5,000gp, and it'd still be less than the price of materials for the wizard...
Yikes.
-Hyp.
The clerics can sell them for nearly 5,000gp, and it'd still be less than the price of materials for the wizard...
Yikes.
-Hyp.
"Like I said, it came as a shock to me that my cleric needed a high stat, ANY high stat to cast scrolls. Call me ignorant, but I thought the sole criteria for scroll-casting was your level...and the writeup of the Magic domain in the PHB kinda implies that, IMHO. Nowhere does it mention this huge limitation. "
The rules are pretty clear on the limiting factor. Not only do they say that you use scrolls as if you are a wizard, and wizards must use thier intellegence to determine thier casting levels. Also on page 76 in use Magic device it says "Emulate Ability Score: To cast a spell from a scroll you need a high ability score in he appropriate ability" and it goes on to explain it in greater detail.
besides that, if it says "see the dmg for rules on scrolls" you shoulda looked.
jake
The rules are pretty clear on the limiting factor. Not only do they say that you use scrolls as if you are a wizard, and wizards must use thier intellegence to determine thier casting levels. Also on page 76 in use Magic device it says "Emulate Ability Score: To cast a spell from a scroll you need a high ability score in he appropriate ability" and it goes on to explain it in greater detail.
besides that, if it says "see the dmg for rules on scrolls" you shoulda looked.
jake
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Oh, Larcen, one other question...
... does your cleric wear armor?
-Hyp.
... does your cleric wear armor?
-Hyp.
Feanor Starym
First Post
i really don't c the problem here... sure you don't get to use scrolls properly...
but what about wands and Staves, which are just spell trigger?
hows this for a thought:
Cleric with Staff of Healing under one arm, and a Staff of Power under the other.
besides, Wands and Staves are more economical spell wise than a scroll
(at about 15gpXspell lvlX caster level, rather than 25 Xspell lvl X caster lvl)
but what about wands and Staves, which are just spell trigger?
hows this for a thought:
Cleric with Staff of Healing under one arm, and a Staff of Power under the other.
besides, Wands and Staves are more economical spell wise than a scroll
(at about 15gpXspell lvlX caster level, rather than 25 Xspell lvl X caster lvl)
Darkness
Hand and Eye of Piratecat [Moderator]
Re: Re: You're forgetting another cool thing...
Thus, clerics who can cast identify aren't all that common.
But if you can find some, good for you!
The cheapest way, though, is to get a 6th-level Loremaster - who can do it for free. At will, as an Extraordinary ability.
Agreed - just keep in mind that not many deities grant the Magic Domain, and that probably not all of their servants will have it.Hypersmurf said:
Thus, clerics who can cast identify aren't all that common.
But if you can find some, good for you!
The cheapest way, though, is to get a 6th-level Loremaster - who can do it for free. At will, as an Extraordinary ability.
Last edited:
Larcen
Explorer
Ok, this reply is aimed at all the people who suggested that this rule for scrolls is NOT an obscure one, or that I should have known about it because it directly related to my PC.
1) First, like I said, at our table the DMG is not exactly used by the players.
2) Please tell me how a CLERIC is supposed to be familiar with the "Use Magical Device" rules when this is an EXCLUSIVE ability that only Bards and Rogues have?? I did NOT know I needed to be familiar with the abilites of those classes before I choose mine. Gets back to having to know ALL the rules first before creating a PC, doesn't it?
3) Nowhere that I can find in the PHB does it tell you EXACTLY the 10+INT rule applies to scrolls as well. Sure, it makes a mention in the "use magical device" section that you need a high INT, but without that specific INT formula in black and white, that can mean anything. Heck, my "lowly" intelligence of 12 IS considered high or at least above average right? The vague reference to the DMG does not help me since, like I said, I couldn't use that book as a reference. So bottom line, the PHB, the book meant for PLAYERS, does NOT state the 10+INT rule for scrolls anywhere. If I am missing it, please let me know the page number, because otherwise what you guys are telling me is that in order to understand my Cleric-given ability I needed to know something about a rogue's ability which then makes a vague reference to ANOTHER book that I am not even allowed to look at. Yikes! So, yes, this IS an obscure rules for scrolls, dammit!
Even Wippit Guud left a message to the affect that he didn't know about it after playing Wizards for a while. And I am playing a cleric! Can you blame me for being clueless?
4) INT is not the only stat you can use to read arcane scrolls. Sorcerers are allowed to use their CHA. Sure, the PHB mentions that my PC is supposed to use the domain ability as a Wizard, but I have seen lots of cases where spells are passed between classes, due to some special ability or other, and it changes their requirements in some way, like material components are dropped or something. Why not this as well? Why can't a cleric of Mystra conceivably use his WIS for this Goddess-given ability? Again, it was never mentioned clearly. But, this point is actually moot, because like I mentioned way back when, I was not aware of ANY kind of high ability score was needed for scrolls, WIS or otherwise.
5) I am actually lucky. Can you imagine if my INT was a 10? That is a perfectly common score, one I could have very easily wound up with on INT, yet it would have meant NO scroll-casting for me. You would have seen some SERIOUS ranting then! I feel bad for all those uninformed clerics of Mystra out there with INTs less than 11.
1) First, like I said, at our table the DMG is not exactly used by the players.
2) Please tell me how a CLERIC is supposed to be familiar with the "Use Magical Device" rules when this is an EXCLUSIVE ability that only Bards and Rogues have?? I did NOT know I needed to be familiar with the abilites of those classes before I choose mine. Gets back to having to know ALL the rules first before creating a PC, doesn't it?
3) Nowhere that I can find in the PHB does it tell you EXACTLY the 10+INT rule applies to scrolls as well. Sure, it makes a mention in the "use magical device" section that you need a high INT, but without that specific INT formula in black and white, that can mean anything. Heck, my "lowly" intelligence of 12 IS considered high or at least above average right? The vague reference to the DMG does not help me since, like I said, I couldn't use that book as a reference. So bottom line, the PHB, the book meant for PLAYERS, does NOT state the 10+INT rule for scrolls anywhere. If I am missing it, please let me know the page number, because otherwise what you guys are telling me is that in order to understand my Cleric-given ability I needed to know something about a rogue's ability which then makes a vague reference to ANOTHER book that I am not even allowed to look at. Yikes! So, yes, this IS an obscure rules for scrolls, dammit!
Even Wippit Guud left a message to the affect that he didn't know about it after playing Wizards for a while. And I am playing a cleric! Can you blame me for being clueless? 4) INT is not the only stat you can use to read arcane scrolls. Sorcerers are allowed to use their CHA. Sure, the PHB mentions that my PC is supposed to use the domain ability as a Wizard, but I have seen lots of cases where spells are passed between classes, due to some special ability or other, and it changes their requirements in some way, like material components are dropped or something. Why not this as well? Why can't a cleric of Mystra conceivably use his WIS for this Goddess-given ability? Again, it was never mentioned clearly. But, this point is actually moot, because like I mentioned way back when, I was not aware of ANY kind of high ability score was needed for scrolls, WIS or otherwise.
5) I am actually lucky. Can you imagine if my INT was a 10? That is a perfectly common score, one I could have very easily wound up with on INT, yet it would have meant NO scroll-casting for me. You would have seen some SERIOUS ranting then!
I feel bad for all those uninformed clerics of Mystra out there with INTs less than 11.
Larcen
Explorer
Malin Genie said:Also, if you're playing in the FRCS don't you have access to feats like Cosmopolitan, which would allow you to develop the Use Magic Device Skill and get a +2 bonus, together with a +2 synergy bonus (what cleric of Mystra wouldn't have 5 ranks of Spellcraft early on?)
That way, you can emulate ability score and cast those scrolls (with only a reasonable chance of casting the fireball on your own party...
I think magic domain is designed for the smarter, less physical clerics. Ask the DM if you can downgrade your ST, DX, CN in exchange for some more IN (which will be nice for your skill points, too.)
Good luck, and have fun!
Thanks for the kind words and suggestions!
However, I think that the Cosmopolitan feat can only be used for nonexclusive skills and Use Magic Device is restricted to Bards and Rogues only. Not sure, would have to look it up in the FR book.
P.S. My Spellcraft IS maxed-out...how did you guess?
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