magic item creation 200000 gp limit

[SolitonMan]

Hi,

I'm running a warlock in a Shackled City game and he has the leadership feat and an artificer cohort. I've been starting to look at items I'd like to create at higher levels, like 15 or so, but I'm bumping into the 200,000 gp limit for epic items.

Has anyone run a high level crafter in a game? What sort of items did you create, and how did you deal with gp limits? For example, I'd like to craft an item of spell immunity (level 8 spell x level 15 caster x 1800 gp (command word activated) = 216,000 gp). I'd also like to craft an item of mind blank, which would apparently be easily possible (level 8 spell x level 15 caster x 2000 gp (continuous effect) x 0.5 (spell has 24 hour duration) = 120,000 gp). I guess I fail to see how gp is an effective limitation on epic vs. non-epic power. If a non-epic caster uses a non-epic spell to create an item, shouldn't that item by definition be non-epic?

This 200,000 gp limit seems an artificial and arbitrary mechanism to insert "balance" into the game. Any thoughts?

 

[thompsja]

Hi,

I'm running a warlock in a Shackled City game and he has the leadership feat and an artificer cohort. I've been starting to look at items I'd like to create at higher levels, like 15 or so, but I'm bumping into the 200,000 gp limit for epic items.

Has anyone run a high level crafter in a game? What sort of items did you create, and how did you deal with gp limits? For example, I'd like to craft an item of spell immunity (level 8 spell x level 15 caster x 1800 gp (command word activated) = 216,000 gp). I'd also like to craft an item of mind blank, which would apparently be easily possible (level 8 spell x level 15 caster x 2000 gp (continuous effect) x 0.5 (spell has 24 hour duration) = 120,000 gp). I guess I fail to see how gp is an effective limitation on epic vs. non-epic power. If a non-epic caster uses a non-epic spell to create an item, shouldn't that item by definition be non-epic?

This 200,000 gp limit seems an artificial and arbitrary mechanism to insert "balance" into the game. Any thoughts?

You'll note that the Staff of Power is over 200K gp. If characters are 18th or 19th level, I wouldn't be opposed to items crossed the line, although I would retain the level*3 limitation on armor, characteristic bonuses, and weapon bonuses.

Yes, it's a balance thing. I think that your idea isn't out of control. I shudder at a character with a ring of time stop (only 275K), and probably wouldn't allow a non-epic character to make it.

 

[Jack Simth]

This 200,000 gp limit seems an artificial and arbitrary mechanism to insert "balance" into the game. Any thoughts?

1) You're looking at the magic item creation guidelines, in the DMG, which are designed for DM use and note a couple of times that they're guidelines and it's not an exact science. It's actually pretty easy to break - a widget of Cure Minor Wounds - 900 gp for limitless non-combat healing, for instance. The use-activated gauntlet of True Strike would run 2,000 (give or take), for instance.
2) You don't want to price Mind Blank as a continuous item. You want to price it as a one/day item... or just look up the Third Eye Conceal from the Expanded Psionics Handbook.

 

[Shin Okada]

In almost all the cases , a Warlock should better create scrolls of various spells (and possibly some container such as Infinite Scroll Case), instead making one very expensive command-word items.

 

[Elethiomel]

In almost all the cases , a Warlock should better create scrolls of various spells (and possibly some container such as Infinite Scroll Case), instead making one very expensive command-word items.

The OP not only said he was running a Warlock, but that he has "the leadership feat and an artificer cohort". This must be one of the best magic item creation teams there is for big expensive items.

 

[SolitonMan]

Good point on the "guidelines", I did kind of overlook that. If you use the spell emulation rules and want to create an item that has a 20th level caster and a 9th level spell, and turns that spell (with a rounds/level duration) into a continuous item (so x4 factor for market price), then you're looking at a market price of 9 * 20 * 2000 * 4 = 1,440,000 gp.

I agree that a maximum enhancement bonus of +5 for a weapon or armor is a good limit on non-epic items, but I maintain that a blanket limit of 200,000 gp is just too restrictive on some of the fun items you can create. Nevermind the fact that coming up with the gold to invest in such powerful items is a major task in the first place, so that in itself should be a reasonable limitation if the DM is running a "balanced" campaign.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Serious question: How do you have the time, in game, to make all this stuff?

Even with feats and such to reduce crafting time, that still gotta be like half a year for any of these items.

Or does the artificer just spend 99% of the campaign in your stronghold doing it himself?

 

[Elethiomel]

Serious question: How do you have the time, in game, to make all this stuff?

Even with feats and such to reduce crafting time, that still gotta be like half a year for any of these items.

Or does the artificer just spend 99% of the campaign in your stronghold doing it himself?

It's not unreasonable in many campaigns to take months and months of downtime between adventures. Unless there's an important, time-sensitive clue to follow up on or a clear and present danger there's really no reason for the adventurers to hurry up. Characters may have lives outside the adventuring group, there may be political maneuvering going on that needs to wait on lengthy bureaucracy to proceed, maybe there's a portal to a specific place and time that can only be opened during a solstice, etc.

 

[SolitonMan]

Serious question: How do you have the time, in game, to make all this stuff?

Even with feats and such to reduce crafting time, that still gotta be like half a year for any of these items.

Or does the artificer just spend 99% of the campaign in your stronghold doing it himself?

The answer is that I DON'T have the time, although I do task my cohort with the primary mission of crafting. I've actually begun doing some amount of research into planar knowledge to find a location with flowing time that runs much more quickly than the material plane, with the intention of using a lesser amulet of the planes we acquired to transport between locations. Then crafting can be accomplished in just a short time on the material plane, even though months might pass on the other plane.

While in a normal campaign one can reasonably take months between adventures, in this Shackled City adventure path game it's a lucky break if we have a handful of days without getting railroaded into something. Personally I'm finding it to be a drag, and I can pretty much guarantee I won't play in another AP type game. I like a sandbox approach to D&D, so if I wish to spend months crafting items I can do so at my leisure.

This isn't to say that I don't think Shackled City is a cool story...it's just that I can see the inevitable end of the campaign before I have a chance to really delve into the things that are interesting to me. I just consider it a learning experience.

 

[Jack Simth]

Serious question: How do you have the time, in game, to make all this stuff?

Even with feats and such to reduce crafting time, that still gotta be like half a year for any of these items.

Or does the artificer just spend 99% of the campaign in your stronghold doing it himself?

You need 8 hours per day to Craft. As a Warlock, you don't need your eight hours' rest to recuperate - so a Ring of Sustenance saves you six hours per day. As a full day is eight hours of travel, and two hours of sleep, that leaves you with lots of time to Craft... and Crafting explicitly need not be on consecutive days.