Magic items without creation - need creative ideas plz

[lastalas]

Good point and true, but it "only" requires a deep understanding of one's craft, where as crafting magic items requires that + the ability to deal with the interaction of magic ( which no one has studied for a long time)

 

[Kristivas]

I kinda have an idea. I got some of it from the Ancestral Diasho from Oriental Adventures.

Perhaps the PCs could dig up an ancient ritual that would allow them to make sacrifices to enrich their items with power. The sacrifices could be money, or a part of themselves (XP) or both, and you should limit how much they can put into a weapon by their level.


Edit: Fixed a gramatical error thingy

 

[Rackhir]

Good point and true, but it "only" requires a deep understanding of one's craft, where as crafting magic items requires that + the ability to deal with the interaction of magic ( which no one has studied for a long time)

Well that depends on how you want to rationalize things. Technically, all it takes is the feat, some time, XP and resources. The feat and XP are basically just functions of level and both should be relatively easy to come by given the apparent omnipresence of combat. If you want to view item creation as a long careful process requring great skill. that's one way to rationalize things, but the RAW supports as well or better it just being a question of taking some time to stuff some of your caster's mojo into an item.

Keep in mind that this won't necessarily alter your setting much. Like I mentioned it can take months of effort to make a MW item and you need that before you have something to enchant. So the bottle neck might be the availability of MW items for enchantment rather than the enchantment its self. Also there is that geometric progression in cost, so while a +1 or +2 item could be done in less than a week a +5 (total bonus) item is going to take a Month (25k cost-25 days). So low cost items might be available at something close to D&D standard, but anything above a +3 bonus is going to be very dear indeed.

MW Component (ex 300 gp for item)
Crafter total skill of +17 (probably 10-12 ranks, +int, +2 MW artisan's tools)
DC of 20

All this means with an average roll of 10 will get you 54 gps worth of work done on just the MW component in a week or that it will take you roughly 6 wks JUST for the MW component of a weapon. A Mighty Composite Bow +4 would cost another 500 gp and take something close to another 9 weeks. So that's roughly 4 months of effort for a skilled 6-8th lvl crafter. MW Full Plate is 2,150gp for just steel, never mind adamantite or mithril...

 

[lastalas]

it just being a question of taking some time to stuff some of your caster's mojo into an item.

Exactly...this is the part that has been lost - How one goes about shoving a caster's mojo into the item. I would think it is more complicated than the caster just casting a spell at the object.

Perhaps the PCs could dig up an ancient ritual that would allow them to make sacrifices to enrich their items with power. The sacrifices could be money, or a part of themselves (XP) or both

That gives me another good idea...so if we sort of consolidate everyone's input it would go something like this:

In the old days, magic item creation could be accomplished by the learned and the powerful. Many of these items lie hidden in the ruins and wastes of that ancient culture. In the modern times, having lost much knowledge to war and death, item creation became limited to those in the in the high graces of Ruuk (the only legitimate god - a god of war, violent death, and torture). Now to create an item of power, one must have a weapon/item made by one of the few who have skill enough to produce a masterwork item. Then, after that is accomplished which takes time, the petitioner must go to the High Temple of Ruuk in the capital and engage in prayer and fasting and donations (the period of time and cost would be what the item creation rules require). During that time, the petitioner tells Ruuk of his accomplishments with that item. Once the time is up, the petitioner sacrifices some of himself (this can vary based on what Ruuk demands but usually XP), and Ruuk enchants the weapon with what he feels is appropriate.


What do we all think? In game terms, the PC and the DM would discuss the accomplishments of the PC and come to some decision on what the enchantment would be. This also places the burden of enchantment on the PC not the party wizard. So the wizard isn't burdened with the XP cost for making x number of items. This also allows an "out". If the PCs go into the remnants of the old culture, they can find other magic items and perhaps even a treatise on item creation.

This will force items to be somewhat rare (who has time for all that prayer and sacrificing) while still allowing creation, and adventuring can always provide a possible surprise. But, this way that sword +x is more than just plunking down gold at the local items shop.

 

[Rackhir]

This will force items to be somewhat rare (who has time for all that prayer and sacrificing) while still allowing creation, and adventuring can always provide a possible surprise. But, this way that sword +x is more than just plunking down gold at the local items shop.

I've never really like the idea of making player pay in blood for most magic items. A +1 sword objectively ISN'T that much better than a MW sword or even just a plain sword, aside from its ability to bypass DR/Magic. So there's no point in making it out to be Stormbringer or Excaliber or Irving. Most heroes in fantasy don't start out at 1st level and they usually have all the powers and magic items they'll ever want aside from the McGuffin needed to defeat the villian/monster in the story.

So unless you want to hand out "endgame items" at first lvl, its pretty much inherent to the structure of the system that early magic items aren't going to be kept for ever. If you really object to this, then one of the aformentioned "evolving" magic items system is probably the best choice.

As far as background for your world, Glen Cook's Garret novels deal with a fantasy world where there is a long running, multi-generational conflict between two sides and some of the implications of that for the society and what happens to it when the war does end. For example, most non-humans are exempt from the draft, but aren't citizens as a result. Plus they're great books.

Lawrence Watt-Evans Ethshar books also have a world where there was a long running magical conflict, though to the best of my knowlege only "The Missenchanted Sword" deals at any length with that background and even in that book, it is only the first half or so of the story.

http://www.ethshar.com/

This looks like it should have sufficient information on this web site to get you started or at least order the book.

 

[Sravoff]

I always hated that characters were pretty much always "throwing away" old swords. Sure they were traded in, but cmon, there was no sentimental value. And those that did keep weapons became worthless.

I always thought of some similar system where Items became enchanted over time.

I like the ideas here, I'll probably implement them somehow in my next campign.

 

[lastalas]

I've never really like the idea of making player pay in blood for most magic items. A +1 sword objectively ISN'T that much better than a MW sword or even just a plain sword, aside from its ability to bypass DR/Magic.

I want that +1 sword to mean something more than a transitional weapon. PCs would be able to acquire magic weapons 2 ways: 1) advventuring - this is the more traditional treasure cache, 2) have it made, but to have it made should mean something. Plus, there is no reason that in a few levels they couldn't go back and pray for the current weapon to be improved.

To compensate, most NPCs won't have anything over MW. I don't expect the party will even see a non-human or non-animal party for a few levels. By the time, dangerous unnatural things start popping up they should have enough items to be preapared.

 

[Rackhir]

I want that +1 sword to mean something more than a transitional weapon. PCs would be able to acquire magic weapons 2 ways: 1) advventuring - this is the more traditional treasure cache, 2) have it made, but to have it made should mean something. Plus, there is no reason that in a few levels they couldn't go back and pray for the current weapon to be improved.

To compensate, most NPCs won't have anything over MW. I don't expect the party will even see a non-human or non-animal party for a few levels. By the time, dangerous unnatural things start popping up they should have enough items to be preapared.

It is your campaign and not mine, that's just my point of view. For your players sake though, please keep in mind that unless you are careful about balancing this out, you are going to be screwing over non-casters. Fighters, Rogues and non-casters are much more dependent on magic items than casters are. Especially when dealing with more complicated or subtle situations. Fighters and such depend on their magic items to help deal with situations other than "Enemy standing in front of them".

 

[Cabral]

With a bit of work, you can make a system based off transmutation Incantations. (seems I've been linking to this section of the SRD a lot lately)

Since you don't want magic items to be too common, change the "casting time" from every 10 minutes to every day (so at minimum it takes 6 days) and the extra long check every hour to check every week.

Unlike the Incantations presented in the SRD, these aren't rituals per se, instead, it's a guideline for how long it takes for you to get the benefit of your ordeal.

Example
giving a +1 weapon the Frost ability

Transmutation base DC 34 +22 for Instant duration, -4 for touch range; target: 1 object of up to 20 cu ft. Saving throw Fort (harmless) Spell resistance: Yes
Currently that's a painful 52 DC
Skill checks we'll make the checks required the appropriate craft and Survival (for a total -2 DC)
Limited Target (weapons): -3 DC
Expensive Material component: difference between a +1 weapon and a +2 weapon is 6,000 gold, or 3,000 to create. We'll bump it up to 5,000 gp since you want it rare anyway ... -2 DC
XP Component: 5000/25 = 200 xp so -2 DC
Backlash: Caster is exhausted: -2 DC
Failure: 5d6 cold damage to caster

So from 52 DC to 52-2-3-2-2-2= still a daunting 41 DC increasing the material costs, XP cost or adding some hefty backlash can take it down further (if you lose 1,000 xp, instead of 200, the DC drops to 33) ... then because this is a 6th level effect (the minimum), you need 6 successes (1 day between checks, doesn't fail unless you fail twice consecutively)


Just a thought

 

[saethone]

consider this idea stolen lol, i'm going to skim gold/treasure off the encounters (its a low economy world) and let the players 'spend' it on magic enhancements, this way:


a) even though the world lacks cash/magic items, the PCs aren't underpowered for their CL
b) their magic items are always well suited to their characters
c) their chars can wear whatever they want visually...since they make it magic instead of finding random crap in the dungeon