Magik weapon Bonus damage dice

[Spatzimaus]

With changes to Endure Elements in 3.5, it is quite a bit more difficult to acquire a broad range of energy resistance.

Actually, I'd say it's easier since "Fire Resistance" as an armor ability is now a flat cost instead of a +3. Once you get past +4 or +5, you might as well throw on a few minor elemental resists too, it's just relatively cheap. Add to that the fact that the new DR-like system for resists makes them more desirable, and I expect to see this come up more often than 3E.

 

[Magic Slim]

There's also this thread on the subject...

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=61414

Slim

 

[Staffan]

If that is the case, Im a happy bunny, just seems that getting a D8+3D6+1 weapon for the same as a D6+4 weapon seems a little broken.

Time for more scheming in my weapon building programme.

But the +4 weapon has +3 more to hit, the extra damage is multiplied on a crit, and it's not subject to elemental resistance.

A +4-equivalent weapon is something you might have around level 13, so let's compare a 13th level fighter with bastardsword +4 to one with a flaming frost shocking bastardsword +1 against some CR 13 monsters from the MM.

Both fighters have a BAB of +13, an effective Str of 22 (+6), the whole Weapon Focus/Specialization chain, and Improved Critical. Thus, fighter 1 has an attack bonus of +25 with a damage of 1d10+14 (average 23.4 including crits), and fighter 2 has a bonus of +22 with a damage of 1d10+11+3d6 elemental (average 19.8 + elemental). We'll compare them to a glabrezu, an adult green dragon, a storm giant, a mummy lord and a death slaad. I'm assuming there's someone in the party who can give the weapon a proper alignment, but that the weapon is not made out of any special material.

Glabrezu: AC 27. Immune to electricity, and has fire/cold resistance 10. Fighter 1 hits on a 2, 7 and 12 for a total of (0.95+0.7+0.45)*23.4 = 49 damage. Fighter 2 hits on 5, 10 and 15 for a total of (0.8+0.55+0.3)*19.8 = 39 damage. DR is 10/good and thus bypassed.

Adult green dragon: AC 27. Takes full damage from the elements, so the elemental sword does 3d6 more per hit, for a total of 59 points of damage.

Storm giant: AC 27. Immune to electricity. Same base damage as above, but Fighter 2 does 2d6 more per hit on account of elemental damages, for a total of 52 damage.

Mummy Lord: AC 30. Fire resistance 10, so no extra fire damage. DR 5/-. Immune to crits. Fighter 1 does 1d10+9 per blow, average 14.5. Fighter 2 does 1d10+6+2d6, average 18.5. Fighter 1 hits on 5, 10 and 15 for a total of (0.8+0.55+0.3)*14.5 = 24 points. Fighter 2 hits on 8, 13 and 18 for a total of (0.65+0.4+0.15)*18.5 = 22 points.

Death slaad. AC 28. Fire/Cold/Electric resistance 5, so the average bonus damage from the elemental sword will be 0.5 points (1/6 per element). DR 10/Lawful, which is bypassed. Fighter 1 hits on 3, 8 and 13 for (0.9+0.65+0.4)*23.4 = 46 points. Fighter 2 hits on 6, 11 and 16 for a total of (0.75+0.5+0.25)*20.3 = 30 points.

In these five cases, the weapon with enhancement bonus instead of elemental damage did more significantly more damage per round in two cases (glabrezu, death slaad), slightly more in one case (the mummy lord), slightly less in one case (the storm giant) and significantly less in one case (adult green dragon). I think the enhancement bonus does just fine when compared to elemental damage.

 

[kreynolds]

Of course, the elemental additions all have the "upon command" description, so there are those who rule that activating a shocking, flaming, icy sword would take three standard actions.

The sage just ruled that the creator of the weapon can choose to have all of the elemental enhancements activated with one command word or multiple command words, depending on convenience. It actually makes sense. Imagine your sword that uses one command word to activate flaming, shocking, and frost. Now throw an iron golem into the mix. You're now using a weapon that both slows, heals and breaks slow, and deals cold damage to an iron golem, so its logical that some weapon creators might want to separate those enhancements with different command words.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The sage just ruled that the creator of the weapon can choose to have all of the elemental enhancements activated with one command word...

Bah.

Time to break out the Death Wand again... ten wands of Magic Missile duct-taped together, all activating off the same Spell Trigger.

Activating a special ability is a standard action.

-Hyp.

 

[kreynolds]

Bah.

To your post? Yes. He made no mention of wands.

EDIT: By the way, what the hell are you doing up at 5 o'clock on a Saturday morning!

 

[Hypersmurf]

He made no mention of wands.

But there's no reason they should be different.

Different abilities, different action to activate. If it were just saying the word that did it, it would be a free action...

By the way, what the hell are you doing up at 5 o'clock on a Saturday morning!

That would be a good question, if it weren't 1 o'clock on a Sunday morning here...

-Hyp.

 

[Majere]

I would differentiate between many abilities on one item and one ability on many. Or If you insisnt I would have many command words eq

Command a1 - fire on
command b1 - ice on
command c1 - elec on
command d1 - fire and elec on
command e1 - fire and ice on

etc etc etc
All you have to do is make sure you make the playr remeber all 7command words (smart fighter will use the same word to shut them off for simplicity)

 

[kreynolds]

But there's no reason they should be different.

Sure there is. One deals additional fire damage with each successful attack, has a different name, a different cost, different prerequisites, etc, etc, while the other, well...doesn't.

If it were just saying the word that did it, it would be a free action...

When it comes to command word activation, speaking the proper word is a standard action, obviously. Nobody is disputing that, and nobody has ruled otherwise. You can't have 10 wands use the same word, but apparently, as ruled, you can have 3 elemental enhancements use the same word.

It all comes down to preference. If you don't like it, don't use it, but the ruling does not change the core mechanics of command word activation, rather it merely changes the very simple mechancis of the weapon enhancements themselves. In other words, they're an exception, but no more so than vorpal's ability to cut off your head, even when such an action is impossible in the d20 system.

That would be a good question, if it weren't 1 o'clock on a Sunday morning here...

Hey, buddy! Don't talk back to the American Infidel!!

 

[Deset Gled]

In these five cases, the weapon with enhancement bonus instead of elemental damage did more significantly more damage per round in two cases (glabrezu, death slaad), slightly more in one case (the mummy lord), slightly less in one case (the storm giant) and significantly less in one case (adult green dragon). I think the enhancement bonus does just fine when compared to elemental damage.

Have you run any calculations of how this can change if Power Attack is used? My guess is that a straight +4 weapon will end up being better in many situations for a player with PA, especially if it is two-handed.