Make It Yourself

[Reynard]

Most people really can't do it well enough to be enjoyable to their victims players.

I don't really buy this. It isn't rocket science. If something in the book isn't working for you, change it. Or if it isn't there, add it. Or mod it from another game.

It certainly doesn't have to be professional quality design. It doesn't really have to be "good." It just has to solve your specific problem.

I mean, I get that people enjoy complaining, especially about the classics like LFQW. I'm just saying you can fix most of those things for your own table. You can. I promise.

 

[aramis erak]

I don't really buy this. It isn't rocket science. If something in the book isn't working for you, change it. Or if it isn't there, add it. Or mod it from another game.

It certainly doesn't have to be professional quality design. It doesn't really have to be "good." It just has to solve your specific problem.

I mean, I get that people enjoy complaining, especially about the classics like LFQW. I'm just saying you can fix most of those things for your own table. You can. I promise.

Given the number of times the GM's "fix" broke other parts, I honestly thing you're well behind too thick a pair of rose colored glasses.

Even my own.

Most magazine article additions were equally poorly thought out.

Plus, if the game needs significant house ruling other than pre-tested options selection, the author's failed in their primary task. Too many games that work well without needing to tweak them significantly exist. There's little reason to try and fix game A when games B through ZZZ exist and do it better.

 

[Reynard]

Plus, if the game needs significant house ruling other than pre-tested options selection, the author's failed in their primary task. Too many games that work well without needing to tweak them significantly exist. There's little reason to try and fix game A when games B through ZZZ exist and do it better.

Sure, but my thesis was this if there is this one thing that is bugging you about the game you are playing, you can fix it yourself. You don't need an official version. You just need a solution that works for your table.

 

[dbm]

In my opinion, there is a spectrum of pre-made versus self-build. Some games have ‘big’ components like classes so getting or making a whole new class can be non-trivial unless it is basically a re-skinning of something. Some other games, have lots of small, mix and match components which mean you can easily build a new ‘whole’ out of existing parts.

So, modular games like HERO, GURPS, Savage Worlds mean that it is easy to make a custom character or campaign without needing to home-brew lots of core components (you might want to do some fine tuning round the edges). If I want to play a game focussed on competing martial arts schools in 80s Hong Kong or about regular people surviving a disaster and discovering it game them super powers, I can do that easily with a flexible system.

And these modular systems give players lots of flexibility without needing the GM to continually approve home brew or third party stuff, too.

 

[JRich]

I can cook, but professional chefs generally make much better meals than I have ever been capable of making. Also, I have a full-time and then some professional job, family and friends that I want to maintain relationships with, and hobbies other than gaming that I want to devote time to. I pay the game designer because they have more specialized knowledge than me and are in a position to devote full-time time to game design or adventure writing (because, literally, it is their job).

If I just want to make it all up myself, what am I even buying the game for? If I pay money for a professionally cooked meal at a fancy restaurant and it’s no better than McDonald’s, you bet I’m going to complain and rightfully so. The chef (or anyone else) can’t reasonably say “make yourself a meal if you don’t like what I cooked for you”. Sure, but what am I paying the chef for?

 

[Reynard]

I can cook, but professional chefs generally make much better meals than I have ever been capable of making. Also, I have a full-time and then some professional job, family and friends that I want to maintain relationships with, and hobbies other than gaming that I want to devote time to. I pay the game designer because they have more specialized knowledge than me and are in a position to devote full-time time to game design or adventure writing (because, literally, it is their job).

If I just want to make it all up myself, what am I even buying the game for? If I pay money for a professionally cooked meal at a fancy restaurant and it’s no better than McDonald’s, you bet I’m going to complain and rightfully so. The chef (or anyone else) can’t reasonably say “make yourself a meal if you don’t like what I cooked for you”. Sure, but what am I paying the chef for?

I don't think your analogy is quite right for the argument I am making. It would more like if you really loved Ethiopian food but there just aren't any good Ethiopian restaurants near you. There are some other north African places, and that would be close, but not quite what you want. And maybe there's one not-great Ethiopian place. What you want, but not good. If you want decent Ethiopian, you are going to have to make it. Finding a good recipe and the right ingredients might be a but of a pain, and it might take a couple tries, but in the end it will be better than no or bad Ethiopian, and even better it will be just the way you want to make it, now how the restaurant does.

Mmmm.... Ethiopian food.

 

[JRich]

I don't think your analogy is quite right for the argument I am making. It would more like if you really loved Ethiopian food but there just aren't any good Ethiopian restaurants near you. There are some other north African places, and that would be close, but not quite what you want. And maybe there's one not-great Ethiopian place. What you want, but not good. If you want decent Ethiopian, you are going to have to make it. Finding a good recipe and the right ingredients might be a but of a pain, and it might take a couple tries, but in the end it will be better than no or bad Ethiopian, and even better it will be just the way you want to make it, now how the restaurant does.

Mmmm.... Ethiopian food.

Sure, but, under your scenario, I’m ultimately not going to be paying anybody to make me that good Ethiopian food. It’s the paying of the money in exchange for a product that creates the expectation that that product will be of a certain level of quality roughly in line with the price that I am paying for it. If the product paid for doesn’t roughly match that anticipated level of quality, I think it’s entirely reasonable for me to be dissatisfied and not reasonable to be told, “you have no grounds to be unhappy or dissatisfied because you can just go ahead and produce or improve that product yourself”. No, I paid you to provide a quality product.

Now, with all of that being said, I AM one who does tinker with gaming products, but it’s around the edges. To continue the food analogy, I think it is reasonable to expect me to say, for example, “no cheese, easy on the spice, or heavy on the spice,” etc. or for me to put salt or pepper on it to my tastes, etc. However, selling me a product (food or rpg) that requires me to do much more than that (figuratively when it comes to rpgs) before the product is of reasonable quality is reasonable grounds for dissatisfaction on my part.

 

[Autumnal]

It’s good to know someone’s got a handle on how to manage care for Mom’s Alzheimer’s and my orthostatic hypotension and the ongoing consequences of losing 160 lbs in four months while diabetes ran amok three years ago and my worsening depression and various other social, physical, and mental trouble - the things they keep me from creating things I want to and keep me dependent on work prepared by others. Could we set up a conference call for you to outline these answers for the people taking care of me? Because we’re not seeing them despite working very hard to find them.

I’m sorry to get sarcastic this way, but I’m tired and angry about being so tired at yet another generalization that has no room for me or others burdened comparably. (Boris this misery upmanship. I think lots of people underestimate the loads dumped on them and blame themselves unnecessarily.)

 

[Reynard]

It’s good to know someone’s got a handle on how to manage care for Mom’s Alzheimer’s and my orthostatic hypotension and the ongoing consequences of losing 160 lbs in four months while diabetes ran amok three years ago and my worsening depression and various other social, physical, and mental trouble - the things they keep me from creating things I want to and keep me dependent on work prepared by others. Could we set up a conference call for you to outline these answers for the people taking care of me? Because we’re not seeing them despite working very hard to find them.

I’m sorry to get sarcastic this way, but I’m tired and angry about being so tired at yet another generalization that has no room for me or others burdened comparably. (Boris this misery upmanship. I think lots of people underestimate the loads dumped on them and blame themselves unnecessarily.)

I am sorry that is happening to you but I don't think it is fair for you to imply that I am being generally dismissive of people's hardships when what I said was: You can do it. I believe in you.

 

[Malmuria]

So it is frustrating when people complain that this style of game or that character class or a certain sort of adventure doesn't exist or they don't like the one from the publisher.

Make it yourself. Create that mundane fighter or that cosey vampire game.

Sure, but, under your scenario, I’m ultimately not going to be paying anybody to make me that good Ethiopian food. It’s the paying of the money in exchange for a product that creates the expectation that that product will be of a certain level of quality roughly in line with the price that I am paying for it. If the product paid for doesn’t roughly match that anticipated level of quality, I think it’s entirely reasonable for me to be dissatisfied and not reasonable to be told, “you have no grounds to be unhappy or dissatisfied because you can just go ahead and produce or improve that product yourself”. No, I paid you to provide a quality product.

These are two different situation: 1. A case of the right kind of product not existing 2. A product existing that says it is going to do X, but then is not good at doing X. I would agree that if you purchase a product like an adventure and it doesn't work, it is reasonable to complain.

I wouldn't say that, for me, making something necessarily takes more time than buying something and reading it. For this reason, if I purchase something, I generally prefer rule systems and adventures that are either lighter (and so easier to run without lots of reading) or entertaining to read on their own.