Making the Kobold a playable race

[DrSpunj]

Okay: Propose adjustments. Videssian, respond.

Okay, to set the baseline of what we're starting with again, here's the WotC version:

KOBOLD CHARACTERS
Kobold characters possess the following racial traits:

• –4 Strength, +2 Dexterity, –2 Constitution.
• Small size: +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, –4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits 3/4 those of Medium characters.
• A kobold’s base land speed is 30 feet.
• Darkvision out to 60 feet.
• Racial Skills: A kobold character has a +2 racial bonus on Craft (trapmaking), Profession (miner), and Search checks.
• Racial Feats: A kobold character gains feats according to its character class.
• +1 natural armor bonus.
• Special Qualities (see above): Light sensitivity.
• Automatic Languages: Draconic. Bonus Languages: Common, Undercommon.
• Favored Class: Sorcerer.
• Level adjustment +0.

I agree with dropping the -2 Con, and with adding a +2 Cha.
I also like the addition of +2 Listen given they're described as "cowardly" and are usually found in Temperate Forests, as well as the fact that it's on the default MM Kobold so would be considered a class skill for any racial HD. Same for Spot, however, I think giving both bonuses is more easily done by giving them Alertness as a racial bonus feat (since that's the chosen feat for the default MM Kobold, though if you want them to be able to take the feat as well and have it stack you'll need to change it to +2 bonuses in the Racial Skills section, like they do with Elves). The spell-like abilities are more flavorful than powerful, so keep them in.

That's pretty much it. They keep the 30' base speed advantage, get Darkvision (at 60', not 90') but have Light Sensitivity (we've agreed that kind of balances out, I think). And their +1 natural armor is fairly equivocal to +1 to all saving throws (according to spell's of comparable power; magic item pricing for both actually puts the Kobold ahead as a Cloak of Resistance +1 is only 1000gp while an Amulet of Natural Armor +1 is double that at 2000gp).

So my version would be something like this:

KOBOLD CHARACTERS
Kobold characters possess the following racial traits:

• –4 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma.
• Small size: +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, –4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits 3/4 those of Medium characters.
• A kobold’s base land speed is 30 feet.
• Darkvision out to 60 feet.
• Racial Skills: A kobold character has a +2 racial bonus on Craft (trapmaking), Profession (miner), and Search checks.
• Racial Feat: Alertness.
• Special Qualities (see above): Light sensitivity.
• Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day—mending, message. Caster level 1st; save DC 10 + kobold’s Cha modifier + spell level.
  
• Automatic Languages: Draconic. Bonus Languages: Common, Undercommon.
  
• Favored Class: Sorcerer.
• Level adjustment +0.

Would I take this Kobold if I was playing a Sorcerer? Absolutely! Everything but Ray spells in sunshine work in my favor (and that's actually neutralized by the +2 Dex on the attack roll!).

Would I take it as a Rogue? It's on the list, along with the other +2 Dex races (Elf & Halfling), but it's not the run-away winner now. A combat-oriented Rogue? A bit tougher, and probably not my first choice, but that's as it should be, IMO, given that the Kobold's Favored Class isn't Rogue. Still, Darkvision plus Sneak Attack is a good combination and pretty compelling for some character concepts. Maybe not the one Videssian's in, but I'm under the impression we're designing without a specific non-campaign in mind. QUACK!

Thanks.

DrSpunj

 

[Nail]

Good brain food.

I like a natural armor bonus, which reflects their lizard skin. Perhaps +1 or +2 is all that's needed there.

I dislike the bonus feat; personal tastes, nothing more. I see kobolds as being crafty, but no more perceptive than the average human. So perhaps strike the Listen bonus, and give it (+2) only to Craft, Profession, and Search. Viddessian and I have talked about both this and the Nat. Armor before I posted here.

I'm ambivalent about the stat adjustments. The DMG has a fairly long section on how to balance them, with Str topping the list (as you know). Before the DMG came out (after I had gotten my hands only only the 3.0e PH), I had converted my home-brew campaign world on a straight, one-for-one basis for ability score adjustments. That is, a +2 somewhere gives you a -2 somewhere else, no special balancing rules.

But the core rules are strongly against me here, for PC races at least. The half-orc is the example, of course.

_Darkvision vs. Light sensitivity_
I agree that the extra 30' is an advantage....but in most adventuring circumstances, it's not huge. Too many twists and turns below ground, in buildings, in the hills and woods.....

The Light sensitivity balances this out, I *think*. It's a -1 on Atk and "vision" skill checks. Dazzled, IIRC.

Moreover (and coloring my vision on the subject), I think Darkvision of any kind should *require* light senstivity. The whole subject just sticks in my craw. It seems that everyone (other than PCs) get the ability, for little to no reason...perhaps we should just give everyone darkvision, and call it a day.

So tell ya what: reduce kobolds darkvision to 60', and give anyone with darkvision the light sensitivity special quality.

 

[AnthonyJ]

Per the default rules, +2 Cha is supposed to be balanced by a weakness of the same type, which means a non-combat attribute, or by a larger weakness of another type. That's why half-orcs get unbalanced attributes -- Str and Cha don't balance one another out.

For those people who are using the point build option, I'd just give PC kobolds an extra 4 build points and use the DMG kobold as written. Otherwise, I'd probably just give PC kobolds +2 Str and Con, making their final stat adjustments -2 Str, +2 Dex, and I might give a +2 to Disable Device to fit in with their skill at crafting traps.

 

[DrSpunj]

I like a natural armor bonus, which reflects their lizard skin. Perhaps +1 or +2 is all that's needed there.

Again, a +1 NA bonus is already worth twice as much as +1 to all saves. A +2 NA bonus is 8x as much. I think +1 is a good deal.

I dislike the bonus feat; personal tastes, nothing more. I see kobolds as being crafty, but no more perceptive than the average human. So perhaps strike the Listen bonus, and give it (+2) only to Craft, Profession, and Search. Viddessian and I have talked about both this and the Nat. Armor before I posted here.

After thinking about it, I'd agree with dumping the feat and just giving flat +2 racial bonuses to the Listen/Spot skills. That way they can take the Alertness feat and still benefit from it if they want. There aren't really any other skills that I think for "crafty" except maybe Bluff. A +2 there actually kind of fits in my mind.

I'm ambivalent about the stat adjustments. The DMG has a fairly long section on how to balance them, with Str topping the list (as you know). Before the DMG came out (after I had gotten my hands only only the 3.0e PH), I had converted my home-brew campaign world on a straight, one-for-one basis for ability score adjustments. That is, a +2 somewhere gives you a -2 somewhere else, no special balancing rules.

But the core rules are strongly against me here, for PC races at least. The half-orc is the example, of course.

Well, kind of. Bull's Strength gives the same bonus as all the other ability spells, and it's not of any higher level. Magic items that give an enhancement bonus to Strength cost the same as other enhancement items. So while I certainly agree the DMG says what it says, the designers aren't really consistent. They seem to be wholly focusing on the Strength score at 1st level only. Sonofapreacherman has something I'd ask you to read on his web page here if you have a couple minutes to check it out.

_Darkvision vs. Light sensitivity_
I agree that the extra 30' is an advantage....but in most adventuring circumstances, it's not huge. Too many twists and turns below ground, in buildings, in the hills and woods.....

The Light sensitivity balances this out, I *think*. It's a -1 on Atk and "vision" skill checks. Dazzled, IIRC.

I'd agree that Light Sensitivity balances out Darkvision at 60', but 90' I still feel gives more than you think it does.

Furthermore, only Dwarfs and Half-orcs have Darkvision among the playable races. The latter don't have really ANY other benefits (if you are coming from the angle as you describe above that a +2 Str is balanced by a -2 Int & -2 Cha) except...wait for it...Orc Blood! Yippee! Stand back and look at the power!

Seriously, if you believe the Half-orc abilities are balanced, they get Darkvision 60' vs the all benefits of EVERY other playable race. Obviously the designers feel it's a fairly powerful ability to balance it against everything else like that. How Dwarves ended up with it and everything else they now get except for a 20' base speed? Well, being a physician I have to blame drug effects, delirium, or both.

Moreover (and coloring my vision on the subject), I think Darkvision of any kind should *require* light senstivity. The whole subject just sticks in my craw. It seems that everyone (other than PCs) get the ability, for little to no reason...perhaps we should just give everyone darkvision, and call it a day.

So tell ya what: reduce kobolds darkvision to 60', and give anyone with darkvision the light sensitivity special quality.

Umm, there's no smiley at the end of it, but I'll take that as a joke.

Thanks.

DrSpunj

 

[Videssian]

Again, a +1 NA bonus is already worth twice as much as +1 to all saves. A +2 NA bonus is 8x as much. I think +1 is a good deal.

I've already emailed Nail directly about some of the other stuff (since it's been an ongoing email exchange), and I think he's going to post some/all of it once he's condensed it, but I did want to add in regard to this particular point, that I disagree. If I was creating a character, I know that *I* would take a +1 to all saves over a natural armor bonus of +1 any day of the week.. heck, I'd take that +1 to all saves over a +2 nat. armor bonus for that matter.. saves are so much more useful..

ttyl,
Videssian

 

[DrSpunj]

I've already emailed Nail directly about some of the other stuff (since it's been an ongoing email exchange), and I think he's going to post some/all of it once he's condensed it, but I did want to add in regard to this particular point, that I disagree. If I was creating a character, I know that *I* would take a +1 to all saves over a natural armor bonus of +1 any day of the week.. heck, I'd take that +1 to all saves over a +2 nat. armor bonus for that matter.. saves are so much more useful..

Well, it's good to see that you disagree and have thought about this. I was wondering when you're were going to join in. Didn't realize you hadn't been given the address.

Unfortunately WotC's design team, for both 3.0 and 3.5, wholly disagree with you. Not only are magical items with Natural Armor enhancements (substantially) more expensive than save bonus items, feats are the same way. Great Fortitude, Iron Will and Lightning Reflexes all give a +2 to a single save. Luck of Heroes (FRCS) gives a +1 to all three saves. None have prereqs and are available to everyone, IIRC (though I haven't looked at Luck of Heroes in a long time, so might be wrong there ).

What Core (or even WotC) feats are out there that improve your AC at all times? Nope, not Dodge. As written that's only vs one enemy and only useful after you've identified what lucky opponent that is. Improved Natural Armor? Yep, assuming you have a natural armor bonus to begin with, a pretty hefty prereq except when we're talking about Kobolds. Any others? I can't think of any.

In game, if we're offered a Cloak of Resistance +1 vs an Amulet of Natural Armor +2, given what you stated up above, remind me and I'll be happy to allow you to take the Cloak.

Then, when we get to Three Oaks, I'll sell it, buy my own Cloak, and then find something to do with the other 3000gp left over.

Thanks.

DrSpunj

 

[Videssian]

Well, it's good to see that you disagree and have thought about this. I was wondering when you're were going to join in. Didn't realize you hadn't been given the address.

Unfortunately WotC's design team, for both 3.0 and 3.5, wholly disagree with you. Not only are magical items with Natural Armor enhancements (substantially) more expensive than save bonus items, feats are the same way. Great Fortitude, Iron Will and Lightning Reflexes all give a +2 to a single save. Luck of Heroes (FRCS) gives a +1 to all three saves. None have prereqs and are available to everyone, IIRC (though I haven't looked at Luck of Heroes in a long time, so might be wrong there ).

What Core (or even WotC) feats are out there that improve your AC at all times? Nope, not Dodge. As written that's only vs one enemy and only useful after you've identified what lucky opponent that is. Improved Natural Armor? Yep, assuming you have a natural armor bonus to begin with, a pretty hefty prereq except when we're talking about Kobolds. Any others? I can't think of any.

In game, if we're offered a Cloak of Resistance +1 vs an Amulet of Natural Armor +2, given what you stated up above, remind me and I'll be happy to allow you to take the Cloak.

Then, when we get to Three Oaks, I'll sell it, buy my own Cloak, and then find something to do with the other 3000gp left over.

Thanks.

DrSpunj

True, WOTC does disagree with me there.. still, I think a sorcerer if given the choice between the two (and assuming that he doesn't have either or can't buy with coin either of them) would choose that cloak over the amulet. On the other hand, mr. front-line-combatant would definitely choose the amulet, he's going to be bashed on a lot more than he'll be making saves, after all..

And Kefk, well, he'd like both! Though he's not interested in those bracers of the goblin.. I mean, how can he sneak up on anything smelling like a goblin?? Not to mention look like one.. I mean, you humans look bad enough!! (well, in Mor'Elandi's case, an elf, but Kefk considers you all "bigfolk", you all look about the same to him)..

 

[Nail]

As an aside: I think Half-orcs are unbalanced, as are dwarves (in opposite directions). I believe we've had this discussion before, though, so we should probably "table" it.

Again, a +1 NA bonus is already worth twice as much as +1 to all saves. A +2 NA bonus is 8x as much. I think +1 is a good deal.

Several NPC races get natural armor. Perhaps they might be a good model.

As Videssian and I were discussing it, it did seem like +3 Nat Armor is too much.....but not wholy off base, concidering the race as a whole and its melee combat utility.

How about a +2 Nat Armor? I think a +1 to all saves compares well to the AC gain. It *is* a close call though; of that, there is no doubt. Again, I'm not especially interested in magic item price comparisons. I think they lead us too far from the issue at hand.

....There aren't really any other skills that I think for "crafty" except maybe Bluff. A +2 there actually kind of fits in my mind.

Right. Videssian and I were wrestling with this as well. IMC, I like the idea of a bonus to Search, as that skill is an "Int skill". I've decided firmly against any Spot or Listen skill bonus.

So while I certainly agree the DMG says what it says, the designers aren't really consistent. They seem to be wholly focusing on the Strength score at 1st level only.

But it is a primary focus of combat, which (even in a varied game) is half of what PCs do. It's true there are ways to compensate...but those ways require additional cost, of some kind or another.

At this stage, I'm most comfortable sticking with the DMG guidelines for ability score trade-offs. Since we haven't seen this in play yet (much!), I think there's room to leave the kobold's proposed ability modifiers in place.

The wiggle room for adjustment of the kobold, as I see it, is in skill bonuses, Nat. Armor, and Darkvision.

I'd agree that Light Sensitivity balances out Darkvision at 60', but 90' I still feel gives more than you think it does.....[snip].....

....Seriously, if you believe the Half-orc abilities are balanced, ...

Like yourself, I do not believe either the half-orc or the dwarf are balanced. And yet: they are still playable. Our previous dwarf did not throw everything out of whack.

Much

Okay, he made it *very* difficult for my monsters to kill him. That much is true......(wanders off into a tangent.....)

Re: Kobold Darkvision
I believe the 90' darkvision is balanced by the Light sensitivity. DrSpunj does not. (Firmly, I might add. ) What does anyone else think?

What if Kobolds looked like this:

KOBOLD CHARACTERS
Kobold characters possess the following racial traits:

• –4 Strength, +2 Intelligence, +2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma.
• Small size: +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, –4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits 3/4 those of Medium characters.
• A kobold’s base land speed is 30 feet.
• Darkvision out to 60 feet.
• Racial Skills: A kobold character has a +2 racial bonus on Craft (trapmaking), Profession (miner), and Search checks.
• Special Qualities (see above): Light sensitivity.
• Natural Armor +2
• Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day—mending, message. Caster level 1st; save DC 10 + kobold’s Cha modifier + spell level.
  
• Automatic Languages: Draconic. Bonus Languages: Common, Undercommon.
  
• Favored Class: Sorcerer.
• Level adjustment +0.

Wow. That's so firmly ECL +0, I think I'm getting dizzy.

 

[Nail]

Oh, and I am *so* gonna look into imposing Light Sentisitivity on anything with darkvision.

Unless it's a PC race. Pc races get free rides for these sorts of things.

 

[Videssian]

This works for me!

Heh, now you watch, tomorrow Nail will get into one of his "roll lots of natural 20s against the poor players in combat" modes and poor Kefk will die a miserable horrible death!

(well, I *hope* not!)

ttyl,
Videssian