Mallus Rediscovers AD&D

[grodog]

Yeah, DF. Like I posted earlier I quit going to K&K years ago despite liking a fair number of posters there. The Alehouse had some overly excitable people I just didn't want to deal with back then, certainly can't speak about them now.

You should give it a try again---perhaps you'll find the people have mellowed (or aren't there any longer).

Can't say as I'm a regular anymore at DF or K&K, but I fully recognize those as the places you want to be if you have an in-depth AD&D question that needs discussion or answering.

Indeed, Henry: I find that I don't visit DF as much as I used to, but both sites have their merits.

I actually used to see more cross-pollination between places like DF and ENW before Gary died; it's a shame it kind of died off.

Yeah, Gary definitely helped to draw some of the old school folks here who wouldn't otherwise have visited. Another reason we all miss him.

 

[thedungeondelver]

If I may make a suggestion to the OP...?

Stirges. Stirges, stirges, stirges, stirges!

You get:

Lots of 'em (no. appearing: 3-30!), they have low hits (1+1HD) but attack as 4HD monsters.

Part of a flock landed on the party's mighty 8th level cleric at Sunday's game and had him down half his HP despite a -4 AC! Muah ha ha.

So remember: STIRGES.

 

[Mallus]

I remember well one instance during a gameday AD&D session where a player who had never played AD&D before had his character charge straight into a friendly cone of cold spell, because of "declare actions, then roll." Rather than be ticked off, they were actually fascinated and amused, because they had NEVER seen "friendly fire" in D&D before.

We had many, many incidents of "friendly fire" back in the first lasting AD&D campaign I played in high school. Good times!

But for this game, I'm not going to use individual initiative. So it'll be: declare actions --> each side rolls init --> action! This way, spell interruption will be a real possibility, but fireballling an ally will only occur if the players intentionally chose to (or if they insist on throwing them into small volume spaces).

If I may make a suggestion to the OP...?

Stirges. Stirges, stirges, stirges, stirges!

Funny you should mention them. They're in the module I'm using next session --James Raggi's The Grinding Gear...

... it may go very badly for the PCs. The party is currently Thi4, Cle4, Ftr3, M-U3. Stirges will eat the AC 9 M-U alive, and he's their only hope of fighting them via his Sleep spell. What are some good non-mechanics based tactics against them? (aside from not being anywhere near them).

Smoke? Large citronella candles?

 

[Mark Hope]

We had many, many incidents of "friendly fire" back in the first lasting AD&D campaign I played in high school. Good times!

Gotta love the friendly fire. Best I ever saw had the party in one room with the enemies in an adjacent room, separated by an open door. Due to the PCs mangling their actions and initiative, their dwarf fighter charged the enemies, only to be simultaneously hit in the back by his fellow elf's javelin, then webbed in the doorway by the party magic-user. The bad guys looked at him, then at each other, shrugged, and set fire to the webs. Ouch .

 

[thedungeondelver]

... it may go very badly for the PCs. The party is currently Thi4, Cle4, Ftr3, M-U3. Stirges will eat the AC 9 M-U alive, and he's their only hope of fighting them via his Sleep spell. What are some good non-mechanics based tactics against them? (aside from not being anywhere near them).

Smoke? Large citronella candles?

Let your players surprise you on this one. If you, yourself start trying to think of methodologies to deal with the stirges you might let slip a hint or two in a moment of sympathy for those mail-wearing treasure-grubbers!

With that said...running out of where the stirges are and dumping a few pots of oil at the door, then setting it alight would create a burning barrier that would keep them at bay (if the place has a door that can be closed, then just shut it). A spray of oil or water as through a bellows might weigh them down too much to fly.

 

[Mallus]

Let your players surprise you on this one. If you, yourself start trying to think of methodologies to deal with the stirges you might let slip a hint or two in a moment of sympathy for those mail-wearing treasure-grubbers!

I'm looking forward to them surprising me! I guess I'm looking for advice on how to adjudicate a few of those potential those surprises --"what might work and why". I also kinda need one or more semi-reasonable defenses against a stirge infestation to explain why the populated town I placed next to the dungeon isn't de-populated (defenses the PC's could observe, wheedle, pay for, or extort from the locals).

With that said...running out of where the stirges are and dumping a few pots of oil at the door, then setting it alight would create a burning barrier that would keep them at bay (if the place has a door that can be closed, then just shut it).

The stirges are outdoors...

A spray of oil or water as through a bellows might weigh them down too much to fly.

... on an island in a lake. Water through bellows is exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for. Thanks!

BTW... I'm afraid, best of intentions to run AD&D closer to the spirit in which it was written, I'll probably sympathize a but with the money-and-magic grubbing, mail-clad PCs. I can't help it. My group makes such amusing characters!

 

[thedungeondelver]

BTW... I'm afraid, best of intentions to run AD&D closer to the spirit in which it was written, I'll probably sympathize a but with the money-and-magic grubbing, mail-clad PCs. I can't help it. My group makes such amusing characters!

It is more fun to keep them alive and in agony for a bit before lowering the boom, yes...

Don't worry - a few years of DMing will disabuse you of this "sympathy" you claim to have

EDIT: I would have the bellows be a cone-like spray, one inch (one actual inch, not ten yards) at the base and 1" (one yard) wide at the widest point, perhaps five feet (five actual feet, not hundreds of yards!) long, striking 1-3 stirges per attack, then have the stirges save v. dragons breath or become drenched and unable to fly for a round, possibly two. Remember they attack as 4HD monsters, so have them save as 4th level fighters irrespective of hit-dice.

 

[Mallus]

Don't worry - a few years of DMing will disabuse you of this "sympathy" you claim to have

It hasn't happened yet, and I first started running D&D 24 years ago!

Remember they attack as 4HD monsters, so have them save as 4th level fighters irrespective of hit-dice.

So saves are based on a creatures attack column and not their real Hit Dice? I didn't know that.

 

[thedungeondelver]

So saves are based on a creatures attack column and not their real Hit Dice? I didn't know that.

It's not written down anywhere, but that's how I handle it and here's why: they're fighting at an ability that shows that their animal cunning and evolution has outstripped their relatively fragile forms (I say relatively since they have on average the same hit points as a full grown orc).

There's not a great many creatures that have a given hit dice but fight at a higher hit dice of ability, so I would judge each on a case-by-case basis.

 

[Mallus]

So we played the 3rd session last night...

... and it ended in fine AD&D style! The cleric and thief injured, the magic-user sleeping off a poison gas attack, and the fighter at zero HP and face down in a lake, having used his last dying strength to hurl himself into the water in an attempt to dislodge the multiple stirges bleeding him dry. Fortunately, he's wearing a talisman that acts as a dose of Water Breathing potion... unfortunately, he's losing 1 HP per round, and his companions are holed up in nearby workshop, behind a stout door.

At least they found/opened the secret door leading to the dungeon (which triggered the gas trap).

They should be able to handle the stirges. They now know doing real HP damage will wake victims of the gas, and that stirges don't care for water. And there's always the M-U's Sleep spell. Of course, there are a lot more stirges lurking about. Perhaps they'll resort to arson... that might help.

Maybe next session they'll get underground!

The funny thing is, their current objective could be labeled the 'easy part'. Before leaving their home city, the party's goblin thief/detective just took a contract to avenge the death of a magic-user's sister. This pits the party against a local thieves guild. Seeing as thieves attract followers and found guilds at 10th level, that's the level of their opposition. In something like 10 minutes, I rolled the basic makeup of the gang, with it's dozen+ members.

Plotting to take them out should be interesting. If they survive the striges. And, well, the actual dungeon...

edit: and I remembered to roll initiative every round. Progress!