Matrix Revolutions SPOILER filled discussion [and my review]

[Negative Zero]

y'know Henry, it's funny, i was having a similar discussion with a friend the other night. given the choice, why not stay in the Matrix? if i knew about it, and now had all this potential power, i would likely stay. i already have a life i like, and now i have all of these abilities to boot? sounds like a fun time to me!

of course there's the issue of freedom and reality, which is made out to be such a big deal in the movies. but even Morpheus makes the point: what is real? if you can see, hear, smell and feel it, is it not real? isn't reality made up from what our brains percieve. does not perception create reality? (which i think is one of the central ideas behind the movie) then what's wrong with the "virtual" reality of the Matrix? even Cypher debated with this idea: "i think the Matrix can be more real ..."

for the record, i did like this one. i initially thought i loved it, till i thought about it some more. (which of course is the W Bros fault since the first one made you think that much to suss out its nuances.) but despite the fact that it's got enough plot holes to drive a fleet of tankers through, it was really enjoyable. i credit the second one with lowering my expectations sufficiently for me to enjoy this one

~NegZ

 

[John Crichton]

i credit the second one with lowering my expectations sufficiently for me to enjoy this one

Ya know, that is kinda how I feel. I did like Revolutions and enjoyed my time in the theater. I do have gripes (not as many as some folks have) but my expectations were low enough to not even bother seeing it on opening night, which is a big deal for me.

I should get around to posting a review one of these days just so I can go back and read it after I watch all 3 movies again. I have a feeling they will stand up better the second time I watch them. I enjoyed the first one much more upon a second viewing and I'm hoping the same holds true for the entire trilogy, which I really want to like.

 

[mojo1701]

Someone pointed out that everyone may want to be freed; the fact is, everyone will NOT want to be freed, due to human nature of desire for safety and security. Take note of any thread on any message board that asks whether a person would like to leave their home and family for a life od adventure; 90% of people usually pick their families and their generally good lives over uncertainty and the unknown. In the world of the Matrix, most people have food, shelter, clothing, and a "normal" life unbothered by the computers or the humans. If you are jacked out, you are in a world of uncertainty, famine, and danger.

The majority of people wouldn't want to know it wasn't real, and if told, WOULDN'T CARE. I honestly don't know if I could make that choice, myself!

"Henry, your world is a lie. The real world is a post-apocalyptic wasteland, where we fight for survival. If you choose to leave your wife, kids, job, and family behind, and enter the real world, you will live a life of boundless possibilities - but possible death. But you will be free. What do you choose?"

"CHOOSE?!@? You call that a CHOICE!?!?! No thanks, I've got a D&D game next Saturday, and my wife and I were going out tomorrow night. Can we talk about this after Christmas?"

Didn't Morpheus say that they don't free a mind once it's reached a certain age, because "they have trouble letting go?"

But you're right.

 

[Darrin Drader]

I just saw it tonight. Oh, where to begin...

First off, I'm looking at the whole series as a whole, not as 1 was better than 2, which was better than... but...

The Wachowski's wanted to tell a story and they told that story. I enjoyed Reloaded, and if there was any reason to be disappointed with it, its because it was just a tease of #3. That whole part where they go to Zion and I saw the armored suits and the grand landscapes, the whole time I was just thinking that I couldn't wait for all that to be used for something.

I knew at the end of the first one that the end would have to be fought outside of the Matrix. I wasn't surprised by that aspect of Revolutions.

I disagree with the notion that nothing has been resolved by the end. I have to applaud Warner Brothers for not providing the typical Hollywood ending. It actually aknowledges the fact that now the machines and humans have a complex relationship and you won't fix things by simply disconnecting from the machine. The machine became part of the ecology of Earth and without them the rest of humanity would probably die in the world as it was.

Revolutions establishes a few things about the nature of the world. In the first movie the assumption is that humans are traped inside but they can get out. In the third one you find out that the programs are as real and in possession of the same emotions as humans. That makes their eradication a much harder thing to live with. It also establishes that there are holes in the matrix that allow mechanical things to escape into the outside world. OK, nifty, right?

As for Morpheus being sidelined, you have to remember his purpose. He's John the Baptist. He's the visionary who comes before the messiah. You can summarize his function in the story as the guy who finds Neo. At the end of Revolutions his ship is destroyed and the only thing he has left is his faith. In Revolutions he is in a position where he is unable to pilot the ship because he can't fly it mechanically. There is nothing for him to do in the matrix after getting Neo away from the trian keeper. The most important thing he accomplishes is showing back up to Zion alive and then maintaining his faith in the messiah he believes in. The last thing he said to Neo was that the pleasure was always his, which is the type of thing John the baptist would have said to Jesus. The greatest action he could take in this movie was his inaction. It was beautiful.

So here's something that I'm surprised no one else has picked up on. Neo's heroic cycle mirrors Paul's in Dune (which is based on something out of mythology). In the first episode Neo unplugs from the matrix, sees the world for what it really is, meets the woman he loves, and essentially becomes a superhero. In Dune, Paul disconnects from the world he knows, takes the spice, and becomes a superhero in the form of Mua d'ib (please forgive the spellings since I know I'm getting it wrong). Matrix Relloaded is full of a bunch of action and exposition. I liked it, but in reality you could cut straight from 1 to 3 without 2 and it wouldn't detract from the story much. On the other hand it does show the "Continuing adventures of Neo," which is kind of cool. The last few minutes set up Revolutions. Finally, back on track, Neo has established his supremacy over the matrix, takes off with Trinity for the city of machines and is blinded by agent Smith in a meat suit. Even blind he can suddenly see the machines in the real world and has superhero-like powers over them. Paul in Dune gets blinded but is still able to see and has a much more understated but still heroic progression. Trinity dies. Paul's wife dies. Paul wanders out into the desert. Neo becomes one with the machine. The Matrix = the desert. Smith(s) = the Harkonens.

Anyway, those are my observations. I have a feeling that this trilogy will age very well and could even become the next Star Wars. It brings up a lot of philosophical questions that people don't seem to want to touch, but by ignoring them, you miss the brilliance of the movies.

 

[mojo1701]

Anyway, those are my observations. I have a feeling that this trilogy will age very well and could even become the next Star Wars.

I dunno. It could, but it's 'R' rating won't help much.

 

[Droogie]

Anyway, those are my observations. I have a feeling that this trilogy will age very well and could even become the next Star Wars.

Not the next star wars....apples and oranges. But I do agree that these films won't fade away. Inspite of the terrible reviews that Revolutions is getting, people will be discussing these films for years.

It brings up a lot of philosophical questions that people don't seem to want to touch, but by ignoring them, you miss the brilliance of the movies.

Exactly.

The movie threw me for a loop, because for the entire time, I assumed that to end the war, the humans had to annihilate the machines. Never did I realize that there was another possible outcome. We realize in the third film that the programs of the matrix are capable of emotions and the all-important human desire for choice. That changes things.We learn that the machines, like the humans, are fully capable of imperfection and ultimately, self annihilation. We realize that the machines are a form of life that have a desire to exist as much as humans. So what to do about the millions of enslaved humans still jacked in? The architect says that they can leave if they wish, but is that enough? It raises 10 questions to every one, but is that a bad thing? I don't think so.

 

[shilsen]

So here's something that I'm surprised no one else has picked up on. Neo's heroic cycle mirrors Paul's in Dune (which is based on something out of mythology).

Maybe some of the people who picked up on it just hadn't bothered to post on this thread I started thinking of the Muad'dib analogy as soon as it became evident that Neo had some form of sight (foresight?) even after being blinded.

That being said, I don't think the Matrix trilogy is ever going to become the next Star Wars. I enjoyed the movies thoroughly, though admittedly part 2 a lot less than I'd have liked to, and with the final one pt.2 dropping my expectations substantially helped. But I'm not particularly impressed by their philosophical musings and definitely would not put them in the brilliant category. But that's just my take on it.

 

[stevelabny]

this is what happens when i dont see movies on opening day...
i dont see them for a month.

It seems to me that in general, the more you liked Matrix Reloaded, the less you liked Matrix Revolutions.

I kinda liked Reloaded, even with its bad special effects.

I kinda dislike Revolutions even though I thought it was really fun to look at.

For me, it went away from all things Matrix-y. Less philosophy, less kung-fu, less neo,trinity,morpheus and more big mindless action seqeuences. (or just one..that wouldnt end)

as pretty to look at as the zion-battle and smith-neo fight were... they were so poorly written that i was completely detached from them. focusing the zion battle around a few characters that i could care less about and having the machines (who took over the freakin world) have NO CONCEPT of strategy whatsoever was just killing me. And I'm all for stretching the boundaries of possibility for a good heroic moment, but wheelbarrowing ammunition across a battlefield littered with giant metal debris is the DUMBEST thing i have ever seen.

Whether you view Matix 2 and 3 as two seperate movies or one big one... it just becomes one big disjointed mess.

But at least I have heard The W brothers say it was a disjointed mess ON PURPOSE ( thats your segue to what i just wrote about Kill Bill)

 

[mojo1701]

Did anyone else notice the ad for Tastee Wheat in the train station?

 

[Negative Zero]

yeah, i thought that was cute

~NegZ