D&D General Matt Colville: "50 years later we're still arguing about what D&D even is!"

[Micah Sweet]

You might want to consider the connection between these two things.

I strongly suspect that if you were playing a setting that was a victim of significant metaplot-ery, especially if it permanently changed the setting, you might be less sanguine about it.

Like I said, games and stories are different things. I have never played modules, just used pieces of them for homebrew games and enjoyed the narratives therein.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Some Ravenloft ended with watch villain versus Darklord fight and PCs try to escape.

Aha yeah that's definitely what I'm talking about, unless the PCs tricked/lead them into fighting somehow.

 

[TiQuinn]

That's just a fairly typical railroad though right? The issue with the oWoD ones and apparently at least some TSR ones was much worse than that - the most dramatic scenes in the adventure would essentially be about the PCs keeping their hands inside the cart as they watch some dramatic scene with Big Important NPCs play out, who are far too Big and Powerful to be intervened in. Or do they have that too?

Roots of Evil ends with a big battle between Strahd, Azalin and an Arcanaloth that you are basically told to keep away from and let them fight each other and focus instead of grabbing a book for a ritual, and the entire encounter is filled with story narrative box text that is written for that course of action.

Ravenloft adventures had a habit of the PCs confronting the darklord but not really fighting them, with a contrived ending where the party escapes and foils the darklord’s plan without actually having them go into combat with them (because party will be instakilled etc)

 

[Bedrockgames]

You might want to consider the connection between these two things.

I strongly suspect that if you were playing a setting that was a victim of significant metaplot-ery, especially if it permanently changed the setting, you might be less sanguine about it.

In the 90s I think lots of people liked the metaplot. I remember gobbling that stuff up and running it at the table. It was in fashion at the time.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

In the 90s I think lots of people liked the metaplot. I remember gobbling that stuff up and running it at the table. It was in fashion at the time.

I think early in the '90s that was absolutely true. I dunno about running it at the table, but buying it? People were buying it!

By the end of the '90s? My impression, and one certainly supported by comments from various game designers of the era and I suspect by reviews from that era, if we go dig into them, people were pretty damn sick of it!

Also the Dark Sun adventure mentioned, Freedom made people mad even back in the day, I know that, but it might be because it was novel-based rather than the metaplot appearing through game products, which I think for some reason was better-accepted.

 

[TwoSix]

I think early in the '90s that was absolutely true. I dunno about running it at the table, but buying it? People were buying it!

By the end of the '90s? My impression, and one certainly supported by comments from various game designers of the era and I suspect by reviews from that era, if we go dig into them, people were pretty damn sick of it!

Also the Dark Sun adventure mentioned, Freedom made people mad even back in the day, I know that, but it might be because it was novel-based rather than the metaplot appearing through game products, which I think for some reason was better-accepted.

Metaplot seems fun, right up until it changes something you like, and/or requires you to buy replacement stuff just to stay current.

The rapid move of gaming communities into online spaces in the second half of the 90s might also have led to people realizing their concerns with metaplot were much more widespread than they realized.

 

[Micah Sweet]

In the 90s I think lots of people liked the metaplot. I remember gobbling that stuff up and running it at the table. It was in fashion at the time.

I still like it. To me it was just as much a narrative to consume as any other I was and still am into.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Metaplot seems fun, right up until it changes something you like, and/or requires you to buy replacement stuff just to stay current.

The rapid move of gaming communities into online spaces in the second half of the 90s might also have led to people realizing their concerns with metaplot were much more widespread than they realized.

I think another factor was a lot of metaplot reveals turning out to be awful and/or underwhelming, but they mostly didn't happen until after a few years. I remember a lot of people being really excited about the Shadowrun metaplot, until it turned out to be awful and actively making the setting more lame/silly (I can't even remember what it was at this point!).

 

[Micah Sweet]

Metaplot seems fun, right up until it changes something you like, and/or requires you to buy replacement stuff just to stay current.

The rapid move of gaming communities into online spaces in the second half of the 90s might also have led to people realizing their concerns with metaplot were much more widespread than they realized.

You're not required to buy anything, especially if the older stuff worked better for you. The story was the story and the game was the game.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think another factor was a lot of metaplot reveals turning out to be awful and/or underwhelming, but they mostly didn't happen until after a few years. I remember a lot of people being really excited about the Shadowrun metaplot, until it turned out to be awful and actively making the setting more lame/silly (I can't even remember what it was at this point!).

That's what head canon is for. Just stop where you want to, or play in an earlier era if you insist on using their story in your game for some reason.

And whether or not something is "awful" or "underwhelming" is of course subjective.