Maximum Enhancement for a Bane weapon?

[Hypersmurf]

I'm going to have to add some Magic Item Bane weapons, too.

I'm away from my books, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's already some sort of Sundering property out there that does much the same thing. (I know there's Shatterspike, but Shatterspike's not that great.)

-Hyp.

 

[shilsen]

I'm away from my books, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's already some sort of Sundering property out there that does much the same thing. (I know there's Shatterspike, but Shatterspike's not that great.)

-Hyp.

You're right. The MIC added the Sundering property, which lets you attack as if you had Improved Sunder and deals an extra 1d6 on sunder attempts. It's a +1 ability.

 

[shdwrnr]

A magic weapon isn't epic until it has a total bonus of +11 or more or an enhancement bonus of +6 or more.

A +1 Keen Flaming Unholy Vorpal Longsword is not an epic weapon. It's just a Longsword with a +1 to attack rolls, +1+2d6 to damage, and a 17-20/x2 threat range that decapitates on a confirm.

 

[Nifft]

A magic weapon isn't epic until it has a total bonus of +11 or more or an enhancement bonus of +6 or more.

Right.

 

[Hypersmurf]

A magic weapon isn't epic until it has a total bonus of +11 or more or an enhancement bonus of +6 or more.

Except that even a weapon with a total market price modifier of +11 or more (an epic weapon) will not bypass DR X/Epic unless its enhancement bonus is +6 or more.

A +5 Keen Vorpal longsword has a MPM of +11, but it will not bypass DR X/Epic.

A +4 Evil-Outsiderbane longsword doesn't have an epic MPM, and its enhancement bonus isn't +6, so it isn't considered an epic weapon...

... except that for the purpose of overcoming DR X/Epic, the definition of 'epic weapon' is 'any weapon with a +6 or greater enhancement bonus', and against an Evil Outsider, this weapon's effective enhancement bonus is +6... effectively meeting the definition for the purpose of overcoming DR X/Epic.

-Hyp.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

I think the debatable issue is the wording of "... effective enhancement bonus is +2 higher..." would be less fuzzy if they didn't use the word "effective" and used a more concrete term or phrase. Such as:
'it's enhancement bonus increases by 2 for all purposes, such as overcoming damage reduction' (Or except for overcoming damage reduction, if that is how you feel the ability should work)

But no. Because "effective" isn't a game term spelled out anywhere but a word in the English language, it falls upon the DM to decide exactly how 'effective' 'effective' is.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Bear in mind that you don't require an equal-or-higher enhancement bonus in 3.5 to damage a magic weapon or shield. In addition, I haven't seen Magic Item Bane as one of the Bane options, so it's unlikely to be an issue... unless it's a Construct Bane weapon attacking an intelligent magic item.

For DR purposes, it effectively has a +7 enhancement bonus against its chosen foe, which means it effectively has a +6 or greater enhancement bonus against its chosen foe, which means it effectively bypasses DR X/Epic against its chosen foe.

-Hyp.

Simply, that is one reading of an epic weapon. But look at the costs of epic weapons, and see the real difference. Or the feat needed to create an epic weapon. Which makes an epic weapon? A rules loophole or the clearly worded rule.

For your campaign, the DM decides. Hopefully he/she makes the intelligent decision.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Simply, that is one reading of an epic weapon.

Right - the one that matters for damage reduction purposes.

But look at the costs of epic weapons, and see the real difference. Or the feat needed to create an epic weapon. Which makes an epic weapon?

You can use the Craft Epic Arms and Armor feat to craft an Epic Weapon which will not bypass DR X/Epic.

The requirement for bypassing DR X/Epic is not 'an epic weapon' in the sense used in the Epic Magic Items chapter of the ELH:
In general, an item with even one of these characteristics is an epic magic item.

• Grants a bonus on attacks or damage greater than +5.
  
• Grants an enhancement bonus to armor higher than +5.
  
• Has a special ability with a market price modifier greater than +5.
  
• Grants an armor bonus of greater than +10 (not including magic armor’s enhancement bonus).
  
• Grants a natural armor, deflection, or resistance bonus greater than +5.
  
• Grants an enhancement bonus to an ability score greater than +6.
  
• Grants an enhancement bonus on a skill check greater than +30.
  
• Mimics a spell of an effective level higher than 9th.
  
• Has a caster level above 20th.
  
• Has a market price above 200,000 gp, not including material costs for armor or weapons, material component- or experience point-based costs, or additional value for intelligent items.

That defines an 'epic item', but it is not the definition that matters for DR. For DR, there is a different definition:
A few very powerful monsters are vulnerable only to epic weapons; that is, magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus. .

A weapon with a caster level above 20th, or a price above 200,000gp, or a special ability with a +6 MPM might be an 'epic weapon' for some purposes, but it does not meet the definition of 'epic weapon' that applies to damage reduction. The definition of 'epic weapon' that applies to damage reduction is solely "magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus".

And for the purpose of attacking an evil outsider, the +4 Evil-Outsiderbane sword is a "magic weapon with at least a +6 enhancement bonus".

-Hyp.

 

[Knightfall]

Except that even a weapon with a total market price modifier of +11 or more (an epic weapon) will not bypass DR X/Epic unless its enhancement bonus is +6 or more.

A +5 Keen Vorpal longsword has a MPM of +11, but it will not bypass DR X/Epic.

Umm, isn't the Maximum Weapon Bonus for a nonEpic item +10 (including special abilities). I don't think you can create a +5 keen vorpal longsword. Am I missing something?

 

[Knightfall]

Bear in mind that you don't require an equal-or-higher enhancement bonus in 3.5 to damage a magic weapon or shield.

Actually, look on page 222 of the v.3.5 DMG, under Hardness and Hit Points (first paragraph at the top of the page).

"An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his own weapon has at least as high an enhancement as the weapon or shield struck."

I only came across this the other day while looking something else up. I didn't know that.