Maximum Enhancement for a Bane weapon?

[UltimaGabe]

Umm, isn't the Maximum Weapon Bonus for a nonEpic item +10 (including special abilities). I don't think you can create a +5 keen vorpal longsword. Am I missing something?

The weapon you quoted can be made, but it's an epic item. His point was that just because a weapon requires the Craft Epic Arms & Armor feat doesn't mean it overcomes DR of /Epic.

Anyway, as I noted at the very beginning, there's debate on this. Really, itdepends on the DM's ruling of the phrase "effective enhancement bonus". (If there wasn't debate, would this thread have become so large?)

Just for the record, though, I agree that a +4 Bane weapon would overcome Epic DR against its favored foe, and I rule such in my games. However, I feel no need to argue with someone who decides to rule otherwise (such as the OP) as I know that it's a subject of debate.

 

[mvincent]

(If there wasn't debate, would this thread have become so large?)

I think the contention that there can be no room for interpretation on the issue is what interested me (i.e. the debate over whether the issue is debateable).

 

[Slaved]

Actually, look on page 222 of the v.3.5 DMG, under Hardness and Hit Points (first paragraph at the top of the page).

"An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his own weapon has at least as high an enhancement as the weapon or shield struck."

I only came across this the other day while looking something else up. I didn't know that.

That line was actually removed in the errata file I believe.

 

[mvincent]

That line was actually removed in the errata file I believe.

Correct. From the DMG errata (if desired):
"Hardness and Hit Points
Dungeon Master’s Guide, page 222
Problem: The first paragraph is not consistent with similar
information for shields on page 217.
Solution: Delete the first sentence after the boldface header.
Change the next sentence to read as follows:
Each +1 of enhancement bonus adds 2 to a weapon’s or
shield’s hardness and +10 to its hit points."

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

(If there wasn't debate, would this thread have become so large?)

The fact that a limited number of people continue to insist that Taft is the current President does not mean that there is any real debate over whether or not this is the case. There's a guy I knew in college who, when presented with the evidence of being incorrect, would respond with, "Somehow, I still think I'm right." That didn't - and doesn't - make him right, however.

There's no issue if someone sees the way the rules work and decides to change them for any reason or no reason whatsoever. That's every DM's prerogative (and one I use myself with some frequency).

That does not mean that the rules are actually written in such a manner.

Umm, isn't the Maximum Weapon Bonus for a nonEpic item +10 (including special abilities). I don't think you can create a +5 keen vorpal longsword. Am I missing something?

The maximum "power" of a weapon you can create with the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat is +10 (including actual enhancement bonus and special abilities). A +5 Vorpal Keen Longsword has a "power" of +11, and accordingly must be made with the Craft Epic Arms and Armor feat.

Despite this, it is useless when it comes to overcoming DR X / Epic.

A +4 Outsider Bane Longsword has a "power" of +5.

Despite this, it is useful when it comes to overcoming DR X / Epic (at least, against outsiders).

An attacker cannot damage a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his own weapon has at least as high an enhancement as the weapon or shield struck

Struck from the book in the Errata back in March of 2004 (if not earlier).

Hardness and Hit Points
Dungeon Master’s Guide, page 222

Problem: The first paragraph is not consistent with similar information for shields on page 217.

Solution: Delete the first sentence after the boldface header. Change the next sentence to read as follows:

Each +1 of enhancement bonus adds 2 to a weapon’s or shield’s hardness and +10 to its hit points.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I think the contention that there can be no room for interpretation on the issue is what interested me (i.e. the debate over whether the issue is debateable).

Actually, I never said that there can be no room for interpretation.

I merely said that the amount of dissent against my / Hyp's interpretation is neither particularly large nor particularly well grounded in the rules.

For instance, if a DM rules that temporary increases in enhancement bonus do not interact with the DR rules (so that a +4 Bane weapon does not have the possiblity to overcome DR X / Epic), then the DM should be consistent and rule that a magic weapon spell on an otherwise non-magical weapon should also not overcome DR X / Magic.

However, if you're going to allow the one, you should allow the other. I've yet to meet anyone who would disallow the second.

 

[Knightfall]

Struck from the book in the Errata back in March of 2004 (if not earlier).

Ah, that makes sense now.

 

[Knightfall]

The maximum "power" of a weapon you can create with the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat is +10 (including actual enhancement bonus and special abilities). A +5 Vorpal Keen Longsword has a "power" of +11, and accordingly must be made with the Craft Epic Arms and Armor feat.

That's what I figured.

 

[Knightfall]

Next Question: "So does a sundering weapon require higher hardness than its target? Or can a giant swinging a massive balsa-wood club destroy and adamantium blade just by virtue of his extra damage?"

 

[UltimaGabe]

Next Question: "So does a sundering weapon require higher hardness than its target? Or can a giant swinging a massive balsa-wood club destroy and adamantium blade just by virtue of his extra damage?"

As far as I know, there's no rule saying that you can't beat down an adamantine door with a wooden club. However, in my games, if you try to attack an object with hardness equal to or greater than your weapon, your weapon takes the same amount of damage you deal- so sure, it's possible he could shatter than adamantine blade with his balsa-wood club, but only if he managed to destroy it in one earth-shattering blow. And, of course, his club would be completely and totally obliterated.

And by the way, it's adamantine. Not adamantium. (Adamantium is from X-Men.)