Maximum Enhancement for a Bane weapon?

[Elethiomel]

If the Bane property is inactive, the bonus is +5; if the bane property is active, the bonus is still +5, because the bonuses are not cumulative.

Here's another example: take an ordinary weapon and cast GMW on it at 20th level. You get a +5 weapon. Take an ordinary +1 weapon and cast GMW as above. Still ends up +5, not +6.

The bane property is *specifically cumulative* with the weapon's enhancement bonus. PHB: "The weapon's enhancement bonus is +2 better than its normal enhancement bonus". I think you're interpreting "normal" here as "not from Greater Magic Weapon". I disagree with that interpretation, I say "normal" is "against other creatures than the ones the bane property affects".

 

[UltimaGabe]

If the Bane property is inactive, the bonus is +5; if the bane property is active, the bonus is still +5, because the bonuses are not cumulative.

Here's another example: take an ordinary weapon and cast GMW on it at 20th level. You get a +5 weapon. Take an ordinary +1 weapon and cast GMW as above. Still ends up +5, not +6.

That's an incorrect analogy.

A +2 longsword has a +2 enhancement bonus. It gains a +2 on attack rolls and damage rolls.

A +2 Bane (dragons) longsword has a +2 enhancement bonus. It gains a +2 on attack rolls and damage rolls. If you attack a dragon, what's its enhancement bonus? Does the Bane stack with the +2? Of course it does! Otherwise the Bane ability would be entirely pointless. But, by your logic, enhancement bonuses don't stack.

Nobody's saying the +1 and the +5 GMW should stack. They're saying the +5 and the Bane should stack. Which they do. There's no "stacking" going on- Bane increases the enhancement bonus by 2. (There's no requirement as to the source of said enhancement bonus.) Why would it stack with the +2 Bane Longsword and not with the +5 Greater MAgic Weapon spell?

 

[Kmart Kommando]

The bane property is *specifically cumulative* with the weapon's enhancement bonus. PHB: "The weapon's enhancement bonus is +2 better than its normal enhancement bonus". I think you're interpreting "normal" here as "not from Greater Magic Weapon". I disagree with that interpretation, I say "normal" is "against other creatures than the ones the bane property affects".

It is +1 weapon, +3 vs the Bane targets, enhanced to a maximum of +5 from the GMW spell.

Greater Magic Weapon specifically says maximum +5.

If you want to nitpick, then one can cast Greater Magic Weapon +5 on the BBEG's +8 epic sword and make it +5. That would be no different than '2 higher than normal' counting a temporary enhancement as normal.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If you want to nitpick, then one can cast Greater Magic Weapon +5 on the BBEG's +8 epic sword and make it +5.

No, you would grant the BBEG's +8 epic sword a +5 enhancement bonus. Which wouldn't stack with its own +8 enhancement bonus, so he only gets the greater of the two - +8.

If someone somehow suppressed the sword's magic without dispelling the GMW, then the +5 enhancement bonus would be the one being used.

If it were a Bane weapon, it would be +10 vs its foe (+8, increased by 2); if you could somehow suppress the +8 bonus without suppressing the Bane (don't think it's possible, but hypothetically), it would act as +7 vs its foe - the +5 enhancement bonus (from GMW) increased by 2 (from Bane).

-Hyp.

 

[UltimaGabe]

It is +1 weapon, +3 vs the Bane targets, enhanced to a maximum of +5 from the GMW spell.

Greater Magic Weapon specifically says maximum +5.

In case you haven't noticed, magic weapons in general have the exact same limitation.

But that still doesn't show any evidence a Bane weapon wouldn't increase it by +2.

 

[Quartz]

Nobody's saying the +1 and the +5 GMW should stack. They're saying the +5 and the Bane should stack. Which they do.

I don't think so. I think you're applying things in the wrong order. GMW gets applied after Bane, not before it. First the normal enchantment, then the Bane, then GMW. You add the Bane property to the +1 to get +3 and then apply GMW which increases it to +5. The Bane enchantment applies to the original bonus.

This can work the other way. Take a +3 weapon with the Bane property. Apply GMW to make it +4. When the Bane property is active, the bonus is +5 (+3 plus +2) .

Exceeding +5 requires the weapon to be crafted with the appropriat Epic Feat.

 

[UltimaGabe]

GMW gets applied after Bane, not before it.

Says who?

If I'm not mistaken, don't the majority of effects get applied in whichever order is more beneficial to the player?

 

[UltimaGabe]

Exceeding +5 requires the weapon to be crafted with the appropriat Epic Feat.

One more thing. You are correct- to craft a +7 sword, you need the Craft Epic Arms & Armor feat. However, you're not crafting a +7 sword- you're crafting a +5 Bane sword. It's a +5 sword that gets an additional +2 against certain opponents.

Let's say you're crafting a +3 sword. By the rules in the DMG, you need a caster level of at least 9th to craft it. What if you're crafting a +3 Bane sword? What caster level is needed- 9 or 15?

 

[Hypersmurf]

I don't think so. I think you're applying things in the wrong order. GMW gets applied after Bane, not before it. First the normal enchantment, then the Bane, then GMW. You add the Bane property to the +1 to get +3 and then apply GMW which increases it to +5. The Bane enchantment applies to the original bonus.

The Bane doesn't take effect until the weapon is used to attack an appropriate foe, while the GMW is applicable from the moment the spell is cast... so the GMW is in effect before the Bane calculation is made.

Consider a +3 Orcbane Defending sword. I have shifted 2 points of enhancement bonus to defence (leaving it effectively a +1 Orcbane sword), and use it to attack an orc. Does the Bane increase get applied to the current effective enhancement bonus (+1), or to the original bonus (+3)?

-Hyp.

 

[Quartz]

Says who?

Says the spell description: GMW gives a maximum bonus of +5. Doesn't matter if you start as +1 or +4, GMW can't boost it beyond +5. A +1 Bane weapon is +3 versus certain foes, which GMW boosts to +5.