It can be potent. But we have found it not to be in almost every fight so far. So far all it has really done is well nothing, they fall down, there up and charge the party. The range of 10(especially since the wizard is usually not in the front ranks) makes it so the targets need to be in the perfect spot for this to disrupt a round of attacks. Also for combat advantage to pan out initiative has to work out well for you so you can take advantage of it.
Mearls on Controller design and At-Will balance
- Thread starter Rechan
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It can be potent. But we have found it not to be in almost every fight so far. So far all it has really done is well nothing, they fall down, there up and charge the party. The range of 10(especially since the wizard is usually not in the front ranks) makes it so the targets need to be in the perfect spot for this to disrupt a round of attacks. Also for combat advantage to pan out initiative has to work out well for you so you can take advantage of it.
You can manipulate initiative by having people (or the wizard) delay.
Eldorian
First Post
Cloud of daggers does more damage to the target, and does auto damage to the target. Flame seed can miss. They are both good.
Justin D. Jacobson
First Post
I don't think I'm telling any tales out of school to recount a very nice conversation I and the other Eggheads had at Gen Con with Mearls on this very topic. If you're interested in seeing another take on the controller role--playing with conditions and saving throws--you should check out the free heroic-tier playtest doc of Rob Donoghue's Witch Doctor class.
Enaloindir
First Post
Our resident wizard found that Magic Missile was kind of bland. However, coupled with its master's wand (push 1 on a hit), he suddenly felt a lot better about it...
- Enaloindir
- Enaloindir
eamon
Explorer
To those that say the wizard at will are already strong, consider that the wizard has terrible AC, hitpoints and healing surges, and that his at wills hit allies in addition to enemies. He has fewer options to avoid or mitigate OA's, and he doesn't have the defenses to risk many. In other words, more powerful at-wills may be a means of compensating; they're better compensation than more powerful encounters or dailies since they're useful more often, but also since they're less easy to obtain via multiclassing. After all, you want to avoid the situation where the best "wizard" is actually a different class multiclassed into wizard.
Balancing offense and defense isn't easy, but it's necessary if the game isn't to become monotonous. 4e already errs rather heavily towards same-ness between classes (compared to 3.5), and while this is good for balance, it's bad for diversity, so I don't think the appropriate response is to balance the at-wills of every class.
So, while such overall class and role balance might not be easy to find when crucial aspects such as at-wills diverge, it's important they try.
Balancing offense and defense isn't easy, but it's necessary if the game isn't to become monotonous. 4e already errs rather heavily towards same-ness between classes (compared to 3.5), and while this is good for balance, it's bad for diversity, so I don't think the appropriate response is to balance the at-wills of every class.
So, while such overall class and role balance might not be easy to find when crucial aspects such as at-wills diverge, it's important they try.
Yeah, that probably would work even better.Jonathan Moyer said:
The idea, I guess, is to punish them for trying to get off the clump, and that way you could explain that the spell leaves ember on the ground or something like that, and if they want to leave they'll have to do so carefully.
brehobit
Explorer
I agree with the broad idea: wizards are generically weaker (and frankly have fewer class features than many). But AC is generally top notch. AC17 at first level is darn good (doesn't everyone take leather at 1st level?) Only defenders and archer-rangers will have a better AC at 1st level. And IME that continues all the way up to 30th.
I still feel the wizard at-wills don't need any help. I think the invoker at will is only a very very small delta (generally less than slow or prone) so not a big deal...
4e really undervalues area attacks. Sure they are weak against solos. But they are huge the rest of the time. I'm playing a cleric in one game, and "divine glow" has been unbelievably useful. My fighter in another game finds his encounter (passing attack) to be "eh". But my cleric's encounter is a big deal.
I think feats and items will keep the wizard in favor. The dual nature of druids and the heal/buff focus of invokers will mean ther will be a limited amount of feats and items available to them that would increase their controller aspect.
The crazy rereqs of the damage type feats (Dex/Cha, Int/Wis, Con,Wis, Con/Dex) help. Wizards benefit from most of those crazy combos because of Implement Mastery. Combine that with the paragon damage type feats, wizards can do a LOT more. I doubt druid and invokers will hit so many damage types.
The crazy rereqs of the damage type feats (Dex/Cha, Int/Wis, Con,Wis, Con/Dex) help. Wizards benefit from most of those crazy combos because of Implement Mastery. Combine that with the paragon damage type feats, wizards can do a LOT more. I doubt druid and invokers will hit so many damage types.
4e fans on the internet undervalue area attacks.
