Meek to mighty... in a month

[FitzTheRuke]

This is pretty much my response to the OP. Why do we have to assume that each adventure comes right on the heels of the previous? In fact, it seems borderline illogical to assume that adventuring opportunities crop up every week to ten days. It might take time to find these opportunities, talk to NPCs, train, etc.

Oh I agree completely with that, and I've done that many times in many campaigns. I've had characters get married, have children, and have their kids grow up. (I've also ran campaigns staring the children of previous characters - as I assume many DMs have.)

I think the posters suggesting multiplying the XP requirements for next level are missing the point -- personally, I wouldn't necessarily want the characters to level slower in REAL time (as that would bore most players I know.) I'm just looking for more ways to encourage them to pass time in the game-world.

Fitz

 

[Insight]

Oh I agree completely with that, and I've done that many times in many campaigns. I've had characters get married, have children, and have their kids grow up. (I've also ran campaigns staring the children of previous characters - as I assume many DMs have.)

I think the posters suggesting multiplying the XP requirements for next level are missing the point -- personally, I wouldn't necessarily want the characters to level slower in REAL time (as that would bore most players I know.) I'm just looking for more ways to encourage them to pass time in the game-world.

Fitz

Sure, and some groups might be OK with leveling a little slower (or perhaps even a LOT slower) if there's an interesting storyline going that keeps their attention away from the bright, shiny things (new class abilities) for a period of time.

All of these considerations depend on your group. If you're DMing for a group of munchkin-y powergamers, they don't tend to care about storyline anyway, so it doesn't matter if time passes or not; they are only looking for the next challenge. If you're DMing for a group of storytellers and heavy RPers, storyline is of utmost importance to them, and they only minimally care about meeting challenges (and those challenges had better be part of the storyline!). Most groups tend to be a mix of the two.

The passage of time should really be DM fiat, with perhaps some input from the players (in terms of what their characters do in the interim). This can be tricky, especially if your campaign setting is fairly wide open; players expect that there are challenges everywhere, so why do their characters hang around the Big City for three weeks doing nothing? As you move towards a closed setting (where finding challenges involves research/investigation/chance as opposed to mere travel time), players will more willingly accept your fiat of time passage.

 

[pemerton]

I think a few of you are mistaking my interest in the topic as a discussion.

I'm not terribly concerned about it, and I can think of many many ways to get around it if I care to.

Just curious as to what you all think.

Fitz

I think you're right that there's likely to be a discussion, in the DMG, of how to pass time in the campaign without passing playtime at the table - at the behest of the players, also, as well as under the control of the GM. Some of the comments in W&M suggested that idea to me when I read it (eg the sidebar on p 20 that suggests that PCs actually in a point of light are not subject to antagonism unless their players choose it).

 

[Xethreau]

I really have the same problem with 3.5.

Running with the rules as is, within a simple two in-game months, the characters went from level 1 to level 6. It is just the problem with characters who have no need to sit down for a long time, long dungeons, and any sort of EXP based leveling.

Meek to Mighty 3.5

 

[helium3]

/agree

This is one of the issues that has bugged me about 3.x in general especially when you run adventure path style campaigns. The ONLY time the PCs rest in 3.x is to make items...

This is one of the things i plan on working on in my new campaign post release, and I hope they have something in the DMG that can help with this... they sure should have the room with taking magic items out of it.

Well, the easiest way to handle this is to simply state that after completing some sort of adventure, nothing happens for X amount of time. No adventure hooks are proferred. Any old hooks that are pursued turn out to be dead ends or already "solved." Random forrays into the countryside to find "encounters" result in stuff far below the the party's currently EL. It works pretty well, particularly if you tell your players why you're doing it.

 

[MerricB]

I really have the same problem with 3.5.

Running with the rules as is, within a simple two in-game months, the characters went from level 1 to level 6. It is just the problem with characters who have no need to sit down for a long time, long dungeons, and any sort of EXP based leveling.

Slowpokes! 2 months to gain 5 levels? And they call themselves adventurers!

It's a feature of all versions of D&D - and pretty much all RPGs - dense adventuring activity causes levels to be gained really quickly, except where rules are added to artificially slow this down; the training rules in AD&D would be a good example of this, if they had actually been used by most groups. (Gary once said that he only used them when PCs gained a large windfall of gold & thus XP).

Cheers!

 

[Jeff Wilder]

I think it's a potential problem in 4E, but I also think it's a big issue in 3.5, so it doesn't bother me much in 4E. In 3.5, I have a "training" rule (for lack of a better word). Basically, upon gaining a level, a PC needs a month of downtime to absorb the knowledge and be ready to continue his or her "adventuring education." Gaining two levels requires four months. If you haven't had your downtime, you just stop gaining XP at the highest point before gaining the third level, until you take the four months.

It works pretty well in practice, especially because as the PCs end up with disparate amounts of XP, there ends up being extra downtime, because one PC or another may need it, as others may not.

It works well with my DMing style, because I tend to have things simmering in the background of the campaign for months and years ... I'm not a big fan of "you learn today about a plot by the mightiest wizard known to man ... and you have a month to stop it." It's more like, "Huh. That's some weird news out of Xen'drik." Three months later: "Did you hear that giants are massing in numbers within a week's march of Stormreach?" Six months later: "Um, guys, remember that ancient warforged we accidentally activated in those Xen'drik ruins? Looks like he's leading the giants in an assault on Stormreach. We might wanna get down there and stop it."

As much as I dislike the Meek to Mighty phenomenon in general, I really do think it's something for the DM to fix, if he wants to. If he and the players are okay with "plug another quarter in" leveling, cool. If not, the DM only has slightly less power to rein it in in 4E as he had in 3.5, at worst.

I'm sure somebody has mentioned this, but rumor is 4E will have built-in rules for customizing the rate of advancement via XP gained (or XP needed, which amounts to the same thing). If 4E really has done what they say in terms of divorcing magic items from character power, that should be enough right there to give the DM all the power he needs. And the nice thing is, he can vary the speed from tier-to-tier, or even level-to-level.

 

[Ahglock]

While in game time is one issue, I'm more concerned with how fat people advance out of game. Lack of advancement because I say two years pass is basically irrelevant to me. The how fast they advance while doing stuff is what counts in my games. Back in 1 and 2e people required such huge amounts of XP that as long as I wasn't going crazy on the treasure post level 8 or so people advanced fairly slowly.

I don't mind fast low level advancement, that seems to fit the fantasy genre I read fairly well. Its the fast once I am competent advancement I don't like. I usually only see that in plot device or in champions terms radiation accident style books, I'm a total weak farm boy, I just found out my Dad is the powerful sorcerer Jimbo and now I wield amazing power overnight.

In 3e and beyond I kind of gave up on XP, people just level when I say you gain a level.

 

[Surgoshan]

While in game time is one issue, I'm more concerned with how fat people advance out of game.

*snork* That's one of the funniest typos I've seen in a while, given some of the stereotypes out there for gamers.

 

[JDJblatherings]

3 or 4 encounters per game day isn't all that many if folks are in a dungeon, it's a little on the low side really.