Melee Smackdown - Who kicks more butt, PsyWar or Ftr? Prove it!

[Patlin]

form of doomed, expanded

Those two are incompatible.

 

[Scion]

Well, then you're not doing more damage than the fighter.

Your guy does a posted amount of d10+23 (avg 28.5). My guy does a posted amount of 26+1con+suppression (against random 20 hd creature this is an average of 36 damage + suppression). Against the type of creatures we seem to be dealing with in this example (high hd) my guy does more damage 'as is'.

Your guy does more damage vs evil outsiders sure, but if we want to make that even I'll just replace lucy with the same bane as you. Same cost, and now we can compare vs evil outsiders better.

As written, he's not getting any help from anyone.

I suppose all of those spells in your items of spell storing come from no where then

Thinking about that, he really ought to do that since Scion's build is heavily dependent upon the party--he only has the 44 pp/day because he is depending upon the cleric for healing.

I suppose if asking for a few heals at level 20 is 'heavily dependent' then sure.

Or I can simply have a dorje with 50 charges of some beefed up body adjustment. Either way would work fine.

It still wouldnt matter a whole lot so long as in the first battle I wasnt up against something immune to mind effects, I could simply dump a fraction of the points into a hostile transfer and get the hp that way.

Depending on the campaign and how things are running it could be done a number of different ways. I suppose that I could even change around my equipment a bit and get myself a skin of the troll.. at that point I wouldnt really have to worry about it (regain 300hp/hour).

 

[Scion]

Well, your PsiWar is less vulnerable to grapple.

Invulnerable.

On the other hand, except in extreme cases, my fighter is actually benefited when the enemy tries to grapple him because he gets to deal nearly thirty points of damage each time they try and then the grapple check is a mere formality. Only the best grapplers have a chance of beating a 28+32+d20 grapple check. At the high end of the grapple chain (a black wyrm dragon with the snatch feat who is not taking the -20 so as not to be considered grappled for instance) your psiwar has a very definite advantage. Across the rest of the board, I'd say beating the tar out of the foe and then beating their grapple check is better than not beating the tar out of them but automatically beating their grapple check.

My guy is also benefitted when they try to grapple. As I automatically succeed in resisting then they have just wasted a check.

Also, how are you getting 28+32+d20? I dont know what some of the feats you have do so I am guessing that some of it comes from those. If any of it comes from spells then what you said in the last post about my being heavily dependant on the party goes for you as well for the same reasons. I have a way around it though, do you?

Just checked close quarters fighting and I am guessing that most of those plusses come from you hitting with you aoo but all that extra bonus does is allow you to resist better, not actually do anything in the grapple.

So it looks to me that you are at d20+20+10. Vs the balors d20+36 you are in a bit of trouble (also, you take extra fire damage each round you are in contact with it) and the pit fiends d20+35 isnt too shabby either.

Well, that buys him a +12 bonus to his grapple score as I count it. I think that brings his total grapple check to +37 (+15 BAB, +12 str, +8 size, +2 morale) That's good, but it's not going to beat a high end grappler. Heck, it's not even much better than a pit fiend. (And the extra natural attacks from Form of Doom can't be used in a grapple since the only way to use non-iterative attacks in a grapple is to have the rake ability).

If you would care to point out where it says you cant use noniterative attacks that would be nice. Otherwise it sounds like you are saying that people with natural weapons can only make a single attack. I know that twf is specifically disallowed, but that is not the same thing.

If people with natural attacks are limited in such a way then that makes a great deal of grappling creatures much less fearsome. Such as the pit fiend being able to only get two claws or two wings or a tail in. (plus constrict of course)

I wouldn't count on hostile empathic transfer working on them. They've got good saves and good SR. You'll get through SR less than half the time and they'll generally make the save.

The save does not negate, the save halves the damage transfered. Also, with such a low chance of failing to beat SR it shouldnt be a problem (vs the balor)

Empathic Feedback would be pretty effective at hurting them. However, keep in mind that they have two or three times your hit points and a lot of their attacks do more than 22 points of damage. The pit fiend regenerates the damage too (though not quickly enough to really make a big difference). So, if that's how you plan on killing them, you're going to kick the bucket a long time before they do. Also, they've got a fair list of spell like abilities which wouldn't trigger Empathic Feedback to fall back upon.

You mean like swinging my sword?

If every round they deal damage to me they take the same amount and then I attack back dealing a bunch of damage. Sounds like they are in trouble to me!

The psychic warrior already deals more damage per hit than the fighter, all I need to do at that point is be able to get enough hits in to kill the sucker.

I will be hurt of course, but then that is the name of the game sometimes.

The fighter is likely to be equally mangled. He is going up against 6 attacks a round, 4 of which can instantly slay him and the other two entangle him then cause fire damage. Then, if he does succeed in killing the balor then he has to make a dc 30 reflex save or be wiped out by the blast of light.

A good strategy but you'll need to do more than just that in order to win. Remember that at level 20, Cornugons, Glazebru, and max HD Erynies fighters (or psiwariors if fighters don't worry you) count as "weak" creatures so you can't expect to wipe them out with a single hostile empathic transfer. (They'll resist the power every now and then, make the save a fair amount of the time and still survive the damage if they don't). You can only do it three times per day before you blow through all 44 of your discretionary power points.

I've got news for you, cleave isnt going to do anything useful to these guys. So for the Glabrezu (which is the closest thing I can find to your glazebru, I am not terribly familiar with demons so if it isnt the one you mean let me know where to find it) you will be stuck to swinging and hopeing to kill just like I will be.

whenever I get low on hp (they have to roll a natural 20 to hit either of us) then I'll just blast that hostile wounds away, get back a bunch of hp and keep swinging. What will you do?

Sure, I dont have a ton of pp in allotment to use for the day, but I still have a nearly full reserve. If it comes down to live or die I can dip into my extra pp and forgo a few of those 8 hour powers. Does the fighter have any such resources to dip into?

Oh, and good luck spotting or hearing them approach

Your psiwar is not even remotely close to my candidates normal damage (let along Majere's pseudo-candidate). To quote your earlier calculations:

While wounding is hard to estimate, let's set the base HD of the foe at 20 (like a balor), so the con damage is equivalent to 20 hit points. Your character then averages about 71 points of damage per round. I don't know how math works where you come from but where I come from, that's a LOT less than 161.6 points of damage per round.

Yes, and yet again I will state that most of that simply comes down to you picking better gear. If I had picked up boots of hastieness as well then my average damage per round would shoot up greatly. If I had not picked up suppression and luck (which neither really come into play in this comparison) then I could have had other enhancements that would deal damage.

But even with those, against high hd creatures my average damage is higher than yours. Currently you are getting 2 more swings than I am, that is where the disperity comes from. That is from my not choosing certain pieces of equipment as well as you. Which is why I said that part of this exercise is faulty.

Takes a round, during which time, your only damage will come from Empathic Feedback--and you can't afford to deal too much damage with Empathic Feedback because as I mentioned, a lot of the enemies in question have double your hit points.

Putting up these two powers drastically increases my damage output for quite some time along with giving me some decent DR, faster movement, and I can scare away lesser mortals who might otherwise be in the way.

Also, if I am useing feedback and transfer then I am useing their hp to damage them. It is a fun combo

I'd say Improved Combat Expertise, Elusive Target, Spring Attack, an AC the dragon can actually miss (easily pumpable to an AC the dragon will miss 50% of the time with all his secondary attacks--even if he has multi-attack and that his primary attack will miss pretty regularly too) while retaining the ability to hit the dragon and present a credible threat as well as nearly double your candidate's hp tip this balance in my candidate's favor. That said, Empathic Transfer would really put the hurt on the dragon and the DR from Inertial Barrier would be surprisingly effective.

If you drop the 10 points into ac in order to get the dragon to be able to miss then you are suddenly hitting much less. But then, all he has to do is drop a darkness and you are in some massive trouble. Or improved invis (bet he has more dispells then you have potions).

Also, with 6 attacks a round with a starting value of +42 I doubt he will be missing either of us except on a 1 (even with your 10 points really). That is the problem with looking at dragons, they have a ton of gear and are incredibly intelligent and have spells.

Still though, if I blow through a good portion of power points (which is not unlikely vs something so much above my CR) then putting up expansion and form of doom would be a good plan. If I drop off my skin of the defender and pick up a couple of other items, one of which happens to be boots of speed, then I'll be sitting pretty with 8 attacks a round.

Still not enough to win, but then your fighter cant win either so I see no point really. Whatever defensive spells the dragon puts up will do bad things to the fighter, but my weapon will dispel them. Likely though these spells will help insure victory over said fighter (such as the improved invis stated above).

Regular Mind Blank from the wizard will match your Psionic Mind Blank.

8th level spell. Useing up a few 6th level spells is chump change compared to useing a spell level that is combatative at these levels.

Still though, even ignoring the various other ways I have to fix this problem, 3 pearls of power 6th are 108k. A pearl of power 8th is 64k so that is all right.

Mage Armor will help with his AC vs. incorporeal touch.

Slightly 1k. Doesnt last all day though. 2k for two castings would.

See Invisibility in the ring of spell storing (cast and immediately replaced with something useful in combat--if he's prepping, there's no reason he can't get the wizard to put See Invis and Alter Self in the ring, cast them both, then get the cleric to put a quickened divine favor in the ring for use in the final combat) helps with spotting. Etc, etc. He's not going to match the PsyWar in flexibility, but he'll come a lot closer.

Wow.. well, lets see.. 30minutes of see invis today (4k) for the cost of a standard action. alter self for 30 minutes (which I dont see doing much for you, but ok) (4k). Quickened divine favor (I have no idea why, maybe to help it not be dispelled.. since everything cast out of a ring of spell storing has a min casting time of 1 standard ction) (25k). I dont see how any of that helps with spotting though.

Seeing invis for 30 minutes a casting doesnt seem like it would help much, same for alter self. It certainly wont matter more than one battle at best and likely there wont be time in battle to switch things around like that (here, put that spell in the ring so I can use it on myself!).

So no, you arent even in the same ball park of flexibility. Although you are in the same amount of monetary useage spell wise I suppose. Unless of course you want to be able to see invis for long enough a day to matter.. then we are starting to get into pretty good money (8 hours of see invis = 64k worth of pearls)

Also I should note that your PsyWar's answer to nearly every situation was to blow about half his discretionary pps for the day.

To deal with credible threats and to heal. Your guy cant heal on his own, my guy can. Against credible threats you are seriously hurting after each battle, if you survivie.

Using up 11 pp against a credible threat and being able to do that 4 times a day certainly isnt bad. 4 battles a day and everyone is wearing thin.

If the PsyWar is going to deal with a group of weak foes by using Hostile Empathic Transfer, getting cornered by a dragon with dimension door, and sock it to the big bad by blowing through all that's left of his power pool, it sounds like he's run out of pps before he's halfway through. It seems to me that your build really needs to be able to get through the normal, easy battles with amorphous +35 atk, AC 35, 300hp, nothing else worth noting monsters without spending any power points (except maybe a few on healing) if you want to be able to Augmented Expansion+Form of Doom+Maximally channeled Psionic Lion's Charge the gig bad. (And that 44 pp, 2 round combo is the only way you come close to my candidate's damage/round).

I dont 'need' those against most things, they are there to use if the situation is dire.

so I have a fall back plan, one which can seriously put a damper on most anythings day.

Can the fighter say the same? If I get incredibly lucky on a good round I can kill off the dragon in a single round (astronomical chances against this of course), but all it takes is 34 pp or so.

Against just the generic +35 to hit, 35 ac, and 300 hp body I can take him out. With a few better choices for equipment (such as boots of haste) then I can take him out as fast as the fighter can (since he was already useing boots of haste this isnt doing more than leveling the playing field). Especialy if any of those bonuses come from spells that can be dispelled.

 

[Majere]

Be real men
Only use the 3 core books and Psi rules from SRD.
Everyone knows add ons are full of broken crap like "I have this spell and every time you hit me you take the same damage and I stack with this other spell that I only have to hit touch acs and I power attack with a two handed sword So I Win"



Majere
Playing devils advocate

 

[Scion]

Be real men
Only use the 3 core books and Psi rules from SRD.
Everyone knows add ons are full of broken crap like "I have this spell and every time you hit me you take the same damage and I stack with this other spell that I only have to hit touch acs and I power attack with a two handed sword So I Win"

I think that all my guy loses in that conversion would be the standard of heroism

 

[Scion]

Those two are incompatible.

Debatable, you are still in your base form, just a different size.

Unless you would like to say having bulls strength on is not compatable either. As they both change something about the person. Although that is more of a stretch it is still along the same lines.

 

[Victim]

Be real men
Only use the 3 core books and Psi rules from SRD.
Everyone knows add ons are full of broken crap like "I have this spell and every time you hit me you take the same damage and I stack with this other spell that I only have to hit touch acs and I power attack with a two handed sword So I Win"



Majere
Playing devils advocate

Those are the Psi rules from the SRD.

---------------------------------

Close Quarter Fighting is letting the fighter take an AoO even against Imp Grap enemies. Then his damage from the hit is added to his grapple check to avoid being grappled. That's probably where the extra 28 comes in.

While only iterative attacks can be used to make grapple checks in a grapple, creatures with natural weapons can attack with them at -4.

One apparent problem here is that people seem to be valueing self sufficiency a bit differently. Some groups work together well and pass around lots of buffs. Not just because they want to help out the fighter, but so the wizard doesn't need to worry about the dominated fighter or rogue splattering him. That X level buff spell might do more damage than a comparable attack spell. In these groups, a fighter can probably expect lots of help. Some solo ability or emergencies neccessitate some potions.

On the other hand, some groups, for whatever reasons, don't work together so well. While the character still probably isn't fighting alone, Mind Blanks and True Sights probably aren't going to passed around.

Either way, some tactics, like the burst effect on Hostile Empathic Transfer, aren't as viable in a group.

 

[green slime]

There seems to be a general non-appearance of candidates... I wonder why

Mostly the Psy War, just shows me how much some things in the XPH are out of line with "equivalent" spells. For instance, Empathic Feedback ignoring DR, regeneration, massive duration (10 minutes per level!!) and non-typed damage. Compare to Fire Shield's duration of 1 round per level and typed damage (fire or cold). Fireshield, a 4th level spell was nerfed in two successive editions (from 1st to 2e, then from 2e to 3.0) just because of its excessive damage dealing. And its damage is at least typed! Such fundamental errors...

So rather than proving the superiority of the Psychic Warrior, Scion's arguments seems to prove to me that certain powers are out of whack, rather than the Psychic Warrior being superior. Such powers being sought out by nearly all Psychic Warriors.

 

[green slime]

Dominate this...

This fighter hardly has to worry about Will saves... and no, he isn't good at Grappling (but at least his weapon is light...).

Mace Maestro

(4) Str: 16 [12 +4 (item)]
(3) Dex: 17 [11 +6 (item)]
(4) Con: 16 [12 +4 (item)]
(6) Int: 14
(8) Wis: 30 [15 +6 (item) +5 (levels) +4(tome)]
(0)Cha: 8
(25)

hp: 20d10+60 = 184 hp

BAB +24
Melee BAB: +30 (simple light weapons)
Missile BAB: +30

Light Mace (base): +36 (+30 +2 spec, +1 magic +1 luck, +2 morale) / +31 / +26 / +21
Melee (twf): +34 (speed) / +34 / +34 (twf) / +29 / +29 (itwf) / +24 / +19
Damage: 1d8+4 (spec) +3 (str) +6 (magic) = d8+13 = 17.5
1d8 +4 (spec) +1 (str) +6 (magic)+ = d8+11 = 15.5

AC: 10 +3 dex +9 armour +3 shield +3 deflection +4 Natural armour = 32-52 (40-60 with Magic Vestment)
Touch: 10+3+9+3 = 25

Fort: 23 [12 (base) +3 (Con)+5 (item) +1(luck) +2 (morale)]
Reflex: 17 [6 (base)+3 (Dex)+5 (item) +1 (luck) +2 (morale)]
Will: 30 [6 (base) +10 (Wis) +5 (item) +4 (item) +1 (luck)+2 (feat) +2 (morale)]

Skills: 23*5 = 115
Balance: 5 (10 cc) = 5+3+2+2 = +12
Climb 10 = 10+3+2 = 15
Jump 10 = 10+3+2+2 = 17
Listen 10 (20 cc) = 10+10+2 = 22
Spot 10 (20 cc) = 10+10+2 = 22
Swim 23 = 23+3+2 = 28
Tumble 11 (22 cc) = 11+3+2+2 = 18

Feats: Intiutive Attack, Combat Reflexes, Weapon Focus (Mace, light), Weapon Specialisation (Mace, light), Greater Weapon Focus (Mace, light) Greater Weapon Specialisation (Mace, light), Improved Two Weapon Fighting, , Quick Draw, Two Weapon Fighting, Iron Will, Force of Will, Psionic Hole, Combat Expertise, Improved Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Elusive Target, Lightning Mace, Improved Critical (Light Mace)

Equipment:
+1 adamantine Colliding (+2) Light Mace of Speed (+3) (75,005 gp)
+1 cold iron Colliding (+2) Holy (+2) Light Mace of Evil Outsider Bane (+1) (74,310 gp) = 149,315 gp)
Crystal Mask of Mind Armour (10,667)
Luckblade (22,060 gp) (+1 bonus on attacks, saves, ability checks)
Periapt of Wisdom +6 (36000)
Belt of Strength +4 (16000)
Bracers of Con +4 (16000)
Winged Boots (16000)
Starmantle Cloak of Protection +5 (182,000) (Reflex DC15 to half damage from magic weaponry)
Tome of Wisdom +4 (110000) = 408,727
Ring of protection +3 (18,000)
Skin of the Defender +4 (32000)
+1 anti-impact (CW, +2000), Heartening (XPsiHB +720), Aporter (XPsiHB +40,320), Ghost Touch, (+3) Gleaming (XPsiHB +3 bonus), adamantine fullplate = 108,540 gp
+1 animated heavy shield of moderate fortification 36,320gp
Standard of heroism (40000) +2 morale bonus on attacks, saves and skill checks = 195,690
TOTAL: 753,732

Assuming no buffing from mage / cleric buddies, and no concealment:
+35/+30+25/+20 (3d6+20) = 95% + 95% + 70% + 45% = 305% * 30,5 = 93.025 BUT half damage 95% of time = 44.186875+4.65125 = 48.838125 per round,
Maestro lasts 3,7675484 rounds without using heartening

Personally he deals (assuming no Evil dude) AC35
Damage: 1d8+4 (spec) +3 (str) +6 (magic) = d8+13 = 17.5
1d8 +4 (spec) +1 (str) +6 (magic)+ = d8+11 = 15.5
Discounting Criticals
95%+95%+75%+50%+25%= 340% * 17.5 = 59.5
95%+75% = 170% *15.5 = 26.35
Total = 85.85
Criticals :
9.5%+9.5%+7.5%+5.0%+2.5% = 34% * 17.5 = 5.95
9.5%+7.5%=17%*15.5 = 2.635
= 8.585 damage
Total Mean damage: 94.435
BUT 10% chance per attack for extra attack at same bonus (Lightning Mace: gain one extra attack at same bonus for each critical threat)
Increases the damage by a further 10%; 94.435 *1.1 = 103.8785

Kills 300 hp AC 35 opponent in 2.887989 rounds

vs Evil Outsider Dude AC 35:
Damage: 1d8 +4 (spec) +3 (str) +6 (magic)+ 4d6 = d8+13+4d6= 31,5 (34,65 with Criticals)
1d8+4 (spec) +1 (str) +6 (magic) = d8+11 = 15,5 (17,05)
With 10% chance per attack for extra attack at same bonus (Lightning Mace) Increases the damage by a further 10%; 146.795 *1.1 = 161.4745

Kills 300 hp AC 35 opponent in 1.85787848855 rounds

If buffed with 2*GMW and 2*MV (assuming Evil Outsider dude)
Opponent strikes: 80% + 55% + 30% +5% (3d6+20) = 170% * 30,5 = 51,85 But half damage 95% of the time = 24,62875 + 2,5925 = 27,22125
Maestro lasts 6,759425 rounds without using heartening
Maestro Damages: 1d8+4 (spec) +3 (str) +10 (magic) +4d6 = d8+17+4d6= 35.5 (39.05 with criticals)
1d8 +4 (spec) +1 (str) +10 (magic)+ = d8+15 = 19.5 (21.45)
vs AC 35:
95% + 95% + 95% + 70% + 45% = 400% * 39.05 = 156.2
95% + 95% = 190% * 21.45 = 40.755
= 196.955
BUT 10% chance per attack for extra attack at same bonus (Lightning Mace)
Increases the damage by a further 10%; 196.955 *1.1 = 216.6505

Kills 300 hp AC 35 opponent in 1.3847187 rounds

IF concealment functions:
51,85 * 80% = 41,48 and half damage 95% of the time = 19,703+2,074= 21,777
Maestro lasts 8,449281 rounds, without using heartening

 

[Majere]

Aside
Dwarfy Mc Munchkin

Race : Dwarf
Fighter (12) Paladin (8)

Stats
B R L M E T
Str 14 +5+6+1: 26
Dex 11 +6 : 17
Con 14+2 +2 : 18
Int 8 : 8
Wis 12 +6 : 18
Cha 14-2 +2 : 14

Feats
1: Weapon Focus
3: Iron Will
6: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
9: Improved critical
12: Greater two weapon fighting
15: Lightning reflexes
18: Great fortiftude

1: Ambidexterity
2: Two weapon fighting
4: Weapon Sepcialisation
6: Improved Initiative
8: Greater weapon focus
10: Power Attack
12: Greater weapon specialisation

Class abilities
Aura of Good
Detect evil at will
Lay on hands ( 16/day)
Aura of Courage (Immune Fear, those within 10' get +4 morale vs fear)
Divine health (Immune to all diseases)
Smite Evil (2/day, +2 to hit, +8 damage)

Spells
1st : Bless Weapon
2nd : (Stuff)

Equipment
Adamantite Full plate (+1)[Heavy Fortification,Ghost touch]
{Acid/Cold/Fire/Electrcity/Sonic Resistance [10]} - 187,650
Large Steel Shield (+1)[Animated, Ghost touch] - 36,170

Double Sword (+1)[Vicious,Holy,Axiomatic,Wounding] (CI)
(+1)[Holy,Wounding,Speed] (Ada) - 262,050


Belt Of Giants strength (+6) -36000
Gloves of Dexterity (+6) -36000
Pariant of Wisdom (+6) -36000
Ring of freedom of action -40000
Cloak of resistance +5 -25000
Boots of striding/springing -5500
Manual gainful exercise (1) -27500
Silver Sheen (4) -1000
Necklace of Adaptation -9000

Ioun stones
Dusty Rose -5000
Pale green -30000
Pink -8000
Pink and Green -8000


Misc Gear that isnt important to this thread -8130

Stats:
Drawfy McMix

Hp : 115+80 = 195
Fort : 14+4+5+5 = +28
Ref : 6 +3+5+5 = +19
Will : 6 +4+5+5 = +20
+2 vs Magic
+2 vs Poison


Ac
Full : 10+9+1+3+1= 24
Touch: 10 +1 +1= 12

Attacks:
+20(BAB)+8(Str)+2(GWF)+1(Ins)-2(2WF)- +29

+29/+24/+19/+14 - D8+8+1+4+6d6+1Con
+29/+29/+24/+19 - D8+4+1+4+2d6+1con-15

Av Con damage - 3.75
Av Damage (No PA) - 86.17 (+37.5)
Av Damage (Opt PA) - 86.17 (+37.5)
Av Damage (Smites) - 107.77(+37.5)

Fighting with a two handed weapon:
+31/+26/+21/+16 - d8+12+1+4+6d6+1con

Av Con damage - 19
Av Damage (No PA) - 88.825 (+19)
Av Damage (Opt PA) - 88.825 (+19)
Av Damage (Smites) - 112.695(+19)

Av Damage Taken - 70.51

Comments -
Fairly even exchange, with a party to heal the fighter the balor is doomed.
The vicious enchantment on both ends just about makes it betterto use both ends.
Note the Ring of Freedom of action negates the Balors whip. Against alomost all of the baalors ablities Dwarfy is saving on 2/3/4/5. The majour worry is probably dominate which dwarfy saves on with a 5 or better.



(Insert party here)
With Buffy the Balor Slayer.
So lets have :
Greater magic weapon*2 (20 Hours)
Magic Vestments *2 (20 hours)
Mage armor (20 Hours)
Barkskin (200 minutes)

And if we are moving into a know combat:
Shield of Faith (20 minutes)
Bears Endurance (20 minutes)
Stone Skin (200 minutes)
Death Ward (20 minutes)
Enlage Person (20 Minutes)
Heroism (200 minutes)
Spell Resistance (20 minutes)
Haste (20 rounds, cast in combat)
Prayer (20 rounds, cast in combat)
Bless Weapon (20 Minutes)


Buffy !
Hp : 115+100+20 = 235
Fort : 14+4+10+5 = +33
Ref : 6 +3+10+5 = +24
Will : 6 +4+10+5 = +25

Ac
Full : 10+13+1+7+1+5+5+1-1= 42
Touch: 10+4 +1 +1+5 +1-1= 22

Attacks:
+20(BAB)+9(Str)+2(GWF)+1(Ins)-2(2WF)+4(Hro)+1(Hst)-1(Sz)+1(Pry)+5(Wep)- +40

+40/+35/+30/+25 - 2d6+9+5+4+6d6+1con
+40/+40/+35/+30 - 2d6+4+5+4+2d6+1con

Av Con damage - 6.90
Av Damage (No PA) - 231.96(+69)
Av Damage (Opt PA) - 235.32(+69)
Av Damage (Smites) - 253.56(+69)

Fighting with a two handed weapon:
+31/+26/+21/+16 - d8+12+1+4+6d6+1con

Av Con damage - 3.45
Av Damage (No PA) - 207 (+34.5)
Av Damage (Opt PA) - 213.20(+34.5)
Av Damage (Smites) - 231.69(+34.5)

Av Damage Taken - 26.17 (0 After Stoneskin)

Comments
Bless weapon makes all crits confirm so the damage is higher than stated.
Two weapon definately wins out when the off hand damage is high enough to penetrate the Dr without fail.

See what scares me here:
I still kill the Balor in round one, kinda kick ass huh ?
I know people will gnash teeth about spells and stuff. To them I point out.
1) You can still win just with the 1h/level buffs, so even if your jumped these should be up
2) Its a party game, its about working together. My party is there to help me, and Im there to help my party.
3) Yes I know the balor favours these weapon, it happens that a paladin would naturally pick up holy/axiomatic weapons. I will run the numbers through a neutral creature if people want.

It aslo shows the power of:
1) A Solid Fighter
2) Casting Clerical buffs on the fighter and not the cleric

Majere