meta punishment

[Painfully]

I see it as more of a DM responsibility to set the pace when it comes to metagaming. If the DM won't buy into it, that metagaming is a bad thing, then things aren't likely to improve. Changing things mid-campaign can be tougher than at the beginning. Once you've set the pace for things, it can be hard to get out of that groove. People have probably become quite comfortable with the play style.

Remember that you're asking people to change their habits, and although metagaming isn't quite like smoking, it is still a habit, and it will take time for people to adjust and become comfortable without metagaming. And some people simply won't want to change. Also, people respond better to immediate rewards, than to punishment. Think about that when choosing to give XP awards vs penalties.

If nothing else, call them on it. Say, "your character doesn't know that." Repeat it often, and, if necessary, direct the PC as an NPC until you work past the metagaming situation.

 

[wedgeski]

My question to the boards is what can i do now, to teach my metagamers a lesson. They have already been warned, now they must learn the hard way. I dont want to cheat them, or make them mad, but i want their to be consequences for them using out of game knowledge. Could really use the help, thanks.

Other folks have given far better suggestions than I would have. Metagaming drives me nuts - it is one of the few roleplaying 'mistakes' that I have a zero-tolerance policy towards and boy, did I wipe it fast from my game. I used harsh methods because my players should have known better by that time. IIRC, the XP penalties worked the best.

I applaud your sensitivity to the feelings of your players but if the situation is as you described, it sounds like they're taking advantage of your good nature. Make 'em pay!

 

[the Jester]

There are several different approaches you could take; here are a few suggestions.

Firstly, you should firmly establish that there are NO DO-OVERS. If someone insists on it, just tell them that they pretend something didn't happen as a full round action and move on to the next person.

Other than that, you can simply not allow things brought on by metagaming. The pc trying to find out what the notes are about? "No, you don't know about that." Period.

Another approach is a firm warning: metagame and I'll dock you xp. Metagame at all and you lose 25% of your xp for the session. Three or more instances? You lose 50%. More than 10?? No xp for you. Harsh, but it sounds like harsh measures are needed.

An alternate approach might be a stern warning: metagame and the monsters will too. They're fighting an earth elemental and it sunders the metagamer's best item. Just so happens to be twinked out for sundering, too. The sorc is metagaming? Oh look the enemy cleric cast silence on his monk buddy who's twinked out to kill mages. Ooops!

Warn them that you can build bad guys designed to take the specific offenders down through metagaming. Hit them in the magic items, hit them with level loss, hit them where it hurts.

But for god's sake, warn them one last time, and tell them specifically what to expect, so they have a chance to clean up their act.

Another possibility is to threaten to boot the metagamers. This only works if you're willing to follow through, though.

 

[Hemlock Stones]

Devious Is As Devious Does

GREETINGS!

I think you are missing a great opportunity to have some fun with them at the expense of them metagaming. Players when they metagame have out of game knowledge and use it in relation to what their characters do within the confines of the gaming environment.

Here's what I suggest doing. Its called a trap. Setting them up. When out of game information comes out, sprinkle in with it bogus information. Bogus information that will lead the players to make their characters take action in particular direction. However, what this leads the charcters to is an awkward situation that might result in the characters suffering greatly. ie. Before the game begins, ask them about what the worst monster encounter they ever had was. Several anecdotes into their descriptions of events, feign greater interest over one of them. Maybe even jot down some quick notes. If all goes well they will notice and make preparations for such an encounter.

A good example of this is an encouter with Trolls. Once they believe it will be a Troll encounter, use all their fire based preparations against them. Yes they encounter Trolls, in gas filled cavern described to them as smelly. As soon as they do something with fire, ignite the gas and cause them grevious damage.

Doing a few things such as this will teach them not to use out of game knowledge towards bogus ends.

So Sayeth the Bone Daddy!

 

[Thanee]

Tell them that from now on, you'll take notes on who is metagaming and how often.

Make those notes.

Also tell them, that you'll metagame as often as they did against them in the worst possible way (and as DM you have a lot more options to do so), totally exploiting their weaknesses, their prepared spell lists, their greatest secrets and so on. Totally ruining their fun that way, just like they do it for you and the others.

Of course, you do not really plan to do that to full extent, but it doesn't hurt to leave them with the impression.



Bye
Thanee

 

[ThoughtBubble]

Ok, so you've told them it's a problem, right? Can you drop them from the game? Is it that bad of a problem? If so, tell them that if they continue in such behavior you're going to have to ask them to leave, because it makes the game less fun for you.

While I apprecieate the methods of "Have the god of annoyance's teleporting halfling bregade attack with cream pies" tactic, I find that for me that tends to create more conflict.

Also, no takebacks. My table strategy is that if the action was allready described "Arrows fly into the wall behind you, spraying you with bits of stone", it's too late. If it's a total situation changer, then I might consider a re-do if it was gross negligence on my part. Otherwise, if I just put a character at a disadvantage by my mistake, I make it up with a few appropriate circumstance modifiers in the next couple of rounds.

 

[Sejs]

Yeah, if it comes to it the Biggest Kid in the Sandbox route does indeed work.


It's the same principle behind the use of some spells and combinations of things; if the players can do it, the DM can do it too. Two way street. It's the reason why some groups stay well away from Mordenkainen's Disjunction, or Scry/Buff/Teleport runs - it opens a really nasty door that the PCs don't want to deal with. Same goes with metagaming, in ways that other posters have already mentioned.

Sorry wizard, looks like you got a nasty infestation of bookworms when going thru that ruin.

Sorry rogue, those goblins are all wearing bracers of armor +1 with heavy fortification that can only be used by goblinoids and have nystul's undetectable aura on them so they don't show up as magical when swept with detect magic or the like.

Sorry fighter, looks like sundering enemies and bestow curse is the order of the day.

Sorry cleric, looks like that guy's rogue pal just stole your holy symbol.

 

[BaldHero]

thanks for the feedback folks.
My gamers are all good friends, and are all experienced gamers. Most of the time, they behave well, but two of them are on my last nerve. One of them is gone, the campaign came to a conclusion, and i wont be having him back as a player. the other has been asked politely to stop using his out of game knowledge to "win". I dont normally allow do overs, and we already use a combat map for almost every encounter, but the damn guy wont stop, its not that hes pulling the wool over my eyes, its just that he wont stop trying to pull the wool over my eyes.
Some of these ideas are really good ones. I think ill be docking XP from now on, and perhaps allowing npc and monsters to focus their energy on the one hero that seems to have precognition, and the ability to read minds. If he gets mauled everytie he does something that seems unrealistic to me then maybe hell stop.
Im pretty sure after talking to my other players that im not being vague or anything like that, but i want to give this guy every opportunity to correct his game play before i boot him.

 

[ThoughtBubble]

I'd say make absolutely sure that he knows booting is now in the realm of possible actions. I've played with a guy who was oblivious to the fact that his behavior caused everyone around him discomfort. And he couldn't know to stop till we told him.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

and perhaps allowing npc and monsters to focus their energy on the one hero that seems to have precognition, and the ability to read minds. If he gets mauled everytie he does something that seems unrealistic to me then maybe hell stop.

Or, even better: they won't get near him. They're frightened of him. This may seem nice at first (no more being attacked and hurt), but the side-effect is that the encounters aren't difficult for him any more, and he gets less (or no) XP. It's nasty, but it might just work.

Changing things mid-campaign can be tougher than at the beginning. Once you've set the pace for things, it can be hard to get out of that groove. People have probably become quite comfortable with the play style.

Remember that you're asking people to change their habits, and although metagaming isn't quite like smoking, it is still a habit, and it will take time for people to adjust and become comfortable without metagaming. And some people simply won't want to change.

If all were doing it constantly, that may be right. But it's only one or two guys, and it annoys the hell out of the rest. You can't expect someone to quit smoking at once, but you can expect him not to blow the smoke into your face all the time...