Metal Fist Feat Chain

[IcyCool]

Metal Fist Strike [General]
Prerequisites
Simple Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Gauntlets), Weapon Focus (Spiked Gauntlets), Flurry of Blows.

Benefit
You may treat the Spiked Gauntlet as a special monk weapon. In addition, you may use your unarmed strike damage instead of your spiked gauntlet damage while still benefitting from the spiked gauntlet's enhancements and special materials.

Normal
When attacking with spiked gauntlets, you do base 1d4 damage as a medium character.


Metal Fist Mastery [General]
Prerequisites
Metal Fist Strike

Benefit
You may add your unarmed strike damage to your spiked gauntlet damage while still benefitting from the spiked gauntlet's enhancements and special materials.

Special
You must have at least one hand free to use this feat.

Normal
When attacking with spiked gauntlets, you do base 1d4 damage as a medium character, and do not add your unarmed strike damage.

 

[Patlin]

I vote to APROVE. I don't believe the orc/half orc restriction is necessary or desirable.

I followed the original discussion in the rules forum, and I believe these are apropriate (as in not overpowered) feats.

However, I would comment that they seem a tad on the weak side to me. Basically, these feats allow you to benefit from a specific magic item (actually, to get its full effects, 3 items) in order to avoid damage reduction and gain an enhancement bonus. A friendly spellcaster of any type can give the enhancement bonus with greater magic weapon, which you could also get by way of a potion if you have no such friend available. The special material thing can also be done with a potion. Note that greater magic weapon lasts for hours!

A straight class non-human monk would need to be 6th level to get the first of these feats, and 9th to get the second. They will have dedicated 4 feats to the process! A fighter/monk or human monk could get them by level 6.

If you spend your gold on potions instead of gauntlets you could spend those feats on other nice things to help you overcome damage reduction. From the SRD you might consider examples such as power attack, wild talent, psionic fist and greater psionic fist.

Of course, if you want a guantlet wielding monk, powergaming concerns shouldn't stop you, and as I said earlier I aprove.

 

[IcyCool]

You make a good point Patlin. While I'm glad that you voted to approve, would you still like it if the Metal Mastery Feat added your unarmed strike damage to the spiked gauntlet damage? That certainly makes it a bit more potent, and makes the 4 feat cost for it feel a bit more justified.

In fact, I think I'm going to change my proposal to reflect that.

 

[Someone]

I´m not a judge, but I´ll throw my opinion anyway; the first feat is certainly very weak. In fact is almost useless, since it doesn´t add any benefit to the monk. Why would he want to use a spiked gauntlet, if he has other monk weapons that do the same damage?

Of course, it serves as a step to get the second one, which is quite useful. You get a way to deal with material DR, a platform to add cheap (relatively, compared to the amulet of mighty fists) bonuses to hit and damage, a way to get special weapons echantments, and a small damage bonus (+2,5 damage if you´re Medium size and +2 if you´re small) However, I don´t think it´s too powerful, to pay three or four feats for a moderate bonus to damage.

I think it would be reasonable to make Metal first strike alter the spiked gauntlet´s bonus to match your current unarmed damage bonus, and Metal first mastery to add the spiked gauntlet damage to your normal monk damage.

 

[Patlin]

You make a good point Patlin. While I'm glad that you voted to approve, would you still like it if the Metal Mastery Feat added your unarmed strike damage to the spiked gauntlet damage? That certainly makes it a bit more potent, and makes the 4 feat cost for it feel a bit more justified.

In fact, I think I'm going to change my proposal to reflect that.

The flavor's a bit odd, IMO, but I suppose I still aprove. Perhaps one of the other judges will feel more comfortable tinkering with flavor...

 

[orsal]

I agree it's underpowered. As things stand, the only reason I can imagine taking MFS would be to take MFM later, and you've got enough other prerequisites attached to prevent it from being too good.

I'd be willing to approve, but I'm going to hold my vote pending a little more discussion.

 

[IcyCool]

Well, I'm happy to tinker, and it's always better to have to add than it is to have to take away.

Does the following change to the first feat sit well with everyone?

Metal Fist Strike [General]
Prerequisites
Simple Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Gauntlets), Weapon Focus (Spiked Gauntlets), Flurry of Blows.

Benefit
You may treat the Spiked Gauntlet as a special monk weapon. In addition, you may use your unarmed strike damage instead of your spiked gauntlet damage while still benefitting from the spiked gauntlet's enhancements and special materials.

 

[Someone]

Now that I´m thinking on it, the feats are interesting for a Monk 1/Fighter X character. Spending 3 feats (since you get simple weapon proficiency for being a fighter) you get 2 attacks doing 1d6+1d4, plus full strenght, plus weapon spec when you get it later at level 5 (and you get weapon focus, too) The only downside is, you can´t power attack with them, since IIRC they are light weapons. It´s about as strong, even maybe somewhat weaker, than the Oversized two weapon fighting feat in Complete adventurer, so I think it´s about right.

 

[Bront]

I like the newest incarnation of the feat. It's different, but it allows for the monk to use gauntlests for magical effects.

It's expensive feat wise, but if you're insistant, it works. I like this feat better than the other 2, or the second one (adding the damage was unusuall).

 

[Rystil Arden]

I like the newest incarnation of the feat. It's different, but it allows for the monk to use gauntlests for magical effects.

It's expensive feat wise, but if you're insistant, it works. I like this feat better than the other 2, or the second one (adding the damage was unusuall).

I agree--I like it better now too. Adding the base damage from the gauntlets was rather strange and also damage-wise was adding average 2.5 damage to the unarmed strike plus extras, which is better than Weapon Specialisation by a lot.