MIC: Ironward Diamond....Overpowered?

[ThirdWizard]

While this is true, you are comparing the cost of a +30 hp item with a +50 hp item.

+50 hp and DR 5/- for 50 damage are quite different, though. Take two fighter 10s with 100 hp, one with an item that gives +50 hp and one that has this magic item. Both get hit three times in one round for 20 damage a pop, a fairly normal occurrence in a 10th level game for a fighter.

The first guy is at 90 hp and can be healed back to 150 hp. The second is at 55 hp and can be healed back to 100, also he only gains the benefit of his items 7 more times while the first guy can be healed repeatedly to regain the benefit of his item throughout not only the encounter but the entire day. The first guy also always gains the full benefit of his boosted hp, while the second can die with charges remaining on his item. Not to mention that the +50 hp item works on spells and protects against power word spells.

This isn't anywhere near on par with a +50 hp item.

 

[Owen K.C. Stephens]

Hey, you're the loot for less guy! .

Yep, that's me. :-D

I was just reading those two PDFs the other day; all the low cost items in the MIC made me think of your work, and I went and looked them up. What parts did you work on?

All the authors worked some on all the sections, and a lot of things got shuffled around in development (rings became crystals, shirts became cloaks, regalia because separate items). As a result it's difficult to exlain exactly what I worked on without given a long, boring, list of items with a lot of foot-notes.

I'll do the same thig I do when my friends ask me what sectiosn I wrote. I'll list one item. I wrote the bolt shirt.

And, there are Barbarians and such walking around with Mithral Full Plate in games.

Let them. Mithral armor is treated as one level lighter for purposes of movement and "other limitations." The greater iron ward diamond has the limitation it only functions when applied to heavy armor. Since, for purposes of limitations, mithral full plate is medium armor, the crystal doesn't work on it.

Owen K.C. Stephens
d20 Triggerman

Need better cheap magic options?
Get Loot 4 Less II: Rods, Staves and Wands

 

[KarinsDad]

Let them. Mithral armor is treated as one level lighter for purposes of movement and "other limitations." The greater iron ward diamond has the limitation it only functions when applied to heavy armor. Since, for purposes of limitations, mithral full plate is medium armor, the crystal doesn't work on it.

The wording of mithral armor applies to the limitations of the armor, not the limitations of other magical items.

Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations.

Nowhere does this state that Mithral Full Plate Mail is not still a heavy armor for other purposes. For example, it still looks like Full Plate Mail (abet shiny).


Now, it's possible that the Greater Iron Ward Diamond (or other crystal rules) has explicit rules text that states that it does not work with lighter forms of heavy armor such as mithral full plate. If it does, that's fine. But your sentence here by itself does not illustrate the rule you are inferring. An explicit rule is needed for that.

If no such explicit rules text exists, then the crystal is not a limitation of the armor and the mithral rule would not apply. How can adding stackable DR be considered a limitation of the armor?

 

[Hypersmurf]

If no such explicit rules text exists, then the crystal is not a limitation of the armor and the mithral rule would not apply. How can adding stackable DR be considered a limitation of the armor?

Wait... the stackable DR isn't the limitation. The "This crystal can only be applied to heavy armor" is a limitation. "for the purposes of movement and other limitations" doesn't restrict it to the limitations of the armor itself; "of the armor" is a phrase you're adding.

For the purpose of limitations, the mithral plate is considered medium armor. "This crystal can only be applied to heavy armor" is a limitation. Therefore, for the purpose of "This crystal can only be applied to heavy armor", the mithral plate is considered medium armor.

Similarly, "This benefit applies only when he is wearing no armor, light armor, or medium armor and not carrying a heavy load." is not a limitation of the armor; it's a limitation of Fast Movement (Ex). And yet the mithral clause applies, because the mithral plate treated as Medium armor for the purposes of limitations... and the restriction to no, light, or medium armor is a limitation, even though it's not a limitation inherent to the armor.

-Hyp.

 

[Mistwell]

I think the biggest problem I have with this item is how it interacts with other items. It stacks with everything? It takes up no slot? You don't need to activate it?

It does not stack with another armor crystal, and the armor crystal is a new slot which can hold only one item.

All of the comparisons that I've seen in this thread are flawed because this item works with all of them.

Most comparisons included cost as an element. No flaw there - it still costs gold pieces.

Sure, you can get bonus HP from a Con boosing item, but then you can throw this on top.

If you can afford it.

Sure, you can cast Stoneskin, but then you can throw this on top.

If you can afford it.

If anything, this item is closest to an Ioun stone, but it's impossible for an enemy to break/steal it (also, note that there is an Ioun stone that grants a +2 enhancement bonus to Con also costs 8000gp).

It's WHAT? Impossible to steal? Why on earth would you think that? There is no special rule about only you being magically attuned to it. It's a move action to remove a crystal. It's just sitting there stuck to your armor or shield. Seems like anyone can pull it off of you just as easily as an ioun stone. Plus, it's a slotted item - for a new slot. Ioun stones are a truly unslotted item, and stack with other ioun stones.

The fact that the only cost of this item is GP is what makes it so good. Make the item take up the amulet slot, remove the stacking (as normal with DR), and maybe make it a swift action to activate it, and I'll consider it. Until then, I give it a huge thumbs down.

You just need to wrap your mind around there now being a new couple of slots - the armor crystal slot, and the weapon crystal slot.

 

[James McMurray]

Is there something in the description that makes it stack with Stoneskin? Shouldn't it overlap per the normal DR rules?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Is there something in the description that makes it stack with Stoneskin?

The bit where it says "stacks with all other DR", from the sounds of it.

-Hyp.

 

[Cheiromancer]

What does it mean for DR 5/- to stack with DR 10/adamantine? Does it make it into DR 15/adamantine or 15/-? Or something else?

 

[Hypersmurf]

What does it mean for DR 5/- to stack with DR 10/adamantine? Does it make it into DR 15/adamantine or 15/-? Or something else?

Normally, they'd overlap. So you'd subtract 10 points from any attack with a non-adamantine weapon, and 5 points from any attack with an adamantine weapon.

If the 5/- stacks with everything else, however, you'd subtract 10 points and also 5 points from any attack with a non-adamantine weapon, and 5 points from any attack with an adamantine weapon.

-Hyp.

 

[Owen K.C. Stephens]

The wording of mithral armor applies to the limitations of the armor, not the limitations of other magical items.

If no such explicit rules text exists, then the crystal is not a limitation of the armor and the mithral rule would not apply. How can adding stackable DR be considered a limitation of the armor?

The rule on Mithral is not solely about the armor's limitations. If it was, then bards with Battle Caster wouldn't be able to cast in Mithral Full Plate, as their limitation is class- and feat-based, not a function of the armor.

The crystal has a limitation. For purpose of limitations, mithral full plate is medium armor.