MIC: Ironward Diamond....Overpowered?

[James McMurray]

This reminds me of the discussion about whether a monk's unarmed strikes meet the prerequisites for Improved Natural Attack!

Before we get into that, though; if someone has DR 3/- (adamantine armor, say) and has a crystal that grants 5/-, and takes 2 hp of damage from an arrow, is the reduction taken from the 3/- provided by the adamantine armor, or does it come from the crystal?

The ruling in the FAQ regarding the order spells happen leaves it up to the character. I'd follow that with the crystal too, and let the player opt to have it come off the armor's DR first.

 

[hong]

Adamantine armor DR is x/-.

Yes, you have spotted my DELIBERATE MISTAKE!

... what were we talking about?

 

[KarinsDad]

Yes, one is.

Only for the purposes of movement and limitations, not advantages.

 

[hong]

Admittedly, this is a big part of it. I'm not sold on it yet. On paper, the mechanic of creating a new slot that works on top of another slot does not seem like a good idea to me.

Most of the crystals are pretty good, and don't seem too cheap for the benefit. It's only a couple of problem children like this one, and the weapon crystal that lets you crit/SA undead for 10000 gp, that provoke debate.

 

[hong]

Only for the purposes of movement and limitations, not advantages.

The greater ironward diamond has the limitation that it's heavy armour only.

NEXT!

 

[James McMurray]

Most of the crystals are pretty good, and don't seem too cheap for the benefit. It's only a couple of problem children like this one, and the weapon crystal that lets you crit/SA undead for 10000 gp, that provoke debate.

That one is definitely beefy, but in it's case that requirement for a +3 enhancement is a definitely drawback. There are countless +1 and +2 weapon enhancements better than a mere +1-2 to hit and damage.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Mithral Full Plate looks like heavy. It sounds like heavy. Except for weight, it feels like heavy. It's AC (with also is not a limitation of wearing heavy) is like heavy.

Only limitations caused by wearing heavy armor are limitations that apply to heavy armor.

Right. And limitations caused by wearing medium armor are limitations that apply to medium armor. For the purpose of limitations, Mithral Full Plate is Medium armor.

AC 8 applies to Full Plate. It does not apply to Medium Armors. Is this ALSO a limitation of medium armors? No. It is an advantage of Full Plate Armor, just like another advantage of full plate armor is that the greater iron ward diamond works with it.

But couldn't it be said that Fast Movement is an advantage of no, light, or medium armor, rather than a limitation of heavy armor, and therefore a barbarian in Mithral Full Plate doesn't get it? After all, the Mithral clause only applies to limitations, not advantages. And Fast Movement explicitly phrases it in a positive form ("This benefit applies only when he is wearing no armor, light armor, or medium armor"), not in a negative form ("This benefit does not apply when he is wearing heavy armor"), which supports the idea that it is an advantage not a limitation.

"John cannot legally vote for the President in the U.S. until he is 18.

John looks 16 and has the muscle reflexes "as if" he were 16 year olds.

If John is 18, he can still vote for President because although not voting at age 16 is a limitation of age 16, it is an advantage of age 18."

Certainly. But muscles and looks are irrelevant. If John, despite being 18, were legally considered to be 16 for the purpose of limitations, he would not be permitted to vote... because you-can't-vote is a limitation that applies to 16 year olds.

-Hyp.

 

[brehobit]

That one is definitely beefy, but in it's case that requirement for a +3 enhancement is a definitely drawback. There are countless +1 and +2 weapon enhancements better than a mere +1-2 to hit and damage.

Really? In core I can't think of one that is better. Bane is _really_ nice, but highly limited. Flame and the other elemental damage are actually pretty weak. Holy is nice, but again somewhat limited.

What's that good? I always take the pure +'s when building a higher level character.

Mark

 

[Mistwell]

Do you guys really think "can it be used with Mithral full plate" is the heart of this issue?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Do you guys really think "can it be used with Mithral full plate" is the heart of this issue?

Well, it's the Rules issue.

"Is the cost appropriate?" doesn't have a black and white answer. "Can a Greater Ironward Diamond be used with Mithral Full Plate?" does... we're just arguing about what that answer is

-Hyp.