MIC: Ironward Diamond....Overpowered?

[KarinsDad]

Yes it is, for the purpose of limitations.

For the purposes of limitations of wearing heavy armor.

Not for the purposes of limitations of wearing medium armor.

AC is a limitation of wearing medium armor. Are you claiming that (non-magical) Mithral Full Plate has a max AC of 5?

 

[hong]

For the purposes of limitations of wearing heavy armor.

Not for the purposes of limitations of wearing medium armor.

Nobody said anything about limitations of wearing medium armour.

AC is a limitation of wearing medium armor.

No, AC is a property of armour.

 

[MarkB]

For the purposes of limitations of wearing heavy armor.

No, for the purposes of any limitations applicable to the wearing of that armour - and the limitation on the Ironward crystal is quite certainly applicable.

 

[Hypersmurf]

AC is a limitation of wearing medium armor.

No, it isn't. There's no rule that says "Medium Armor may not have an armor bonus greater than +5".

There's a rule that says Hide Armor has an armor bonus of +3, that Scale Mail has an armor bonus of +4, and that Chainmail and Breastplates have an armor bonus of +5. But no rule saying that no Medium Armor could exceed this.

The absence of a Medium Armor in the PHB that does is not a limitation of the category.

I am stating that the sentence:
Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations.
with reference to Mithral Full Plate means:
Mithral full plate is one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations caused by the wearing of full plate.

And I'm stating that you're making that up, because "and other limitations" is not so restricted.

"A Greater Ironward Diamond may only be applied to heavy armor" is an other limitation. For the purposes of other limitations, mithral full plate is not heavy armor; therefore for the purpose of the "Greater Ironward Diamond may only be applied to heavy armor" limitation, it is not heavy armor.

Do you feel that a Barbarian wearing Mithral Full Plate benefits from Fast Movement (Ex)? Do you feel that an Bard suffers Arcane Spell Failure while wearing Mithral Scale Mail? Do you feel that a Ranger retains his Combat Style while wearing a Mithral Breastplate?

-Hyp.

 

[KarinsDad]

Do you feel that a Barbarian wearing Mithral Full Plate benefits from Fast Movement (Ex)? Do you feel that an Bard suffers Arcane Spell Failure while wearing Mithral Scale Mail? Do you feel that a Ranger retains his Combat Style while wearing a Mithral Breastplate?

Those are limitations of the normal versions of those armors.

Greater Ironward Diamond is not a limitation of the normal version of heavy armor. It's actually an advantage.


I understand how you are getting to where you are getting, but I do not quite understand how to explain how backwards that is.

If one were to write a computer program to handle mithral armor, one would list all of the limitations of full plate armor and adjust those limitations accordingly when applying mithral.

One would not convert full plate armor to medium armor first, check the list of limitations of medium armor, and then put those down as the list of limitations.


The word "limitations" in the rule refers to the original category of the armor, not the new category of armor. The limitations being modified by all of the mithral rules are the original limitations.

For example, one adds two to the max dex bonus of the original armor's max dex bonus when making it mithral.



From my perspective, your interpretation is a semantical game on the word "limitation". Greater Ironward Diamond is not a limitation when applied to Full Plate Armor, hence, that rule does not apply. It's a limitation to wearing light or medium armor, but that's irrelevant to whether it is a limitation to wearing Full Plate Armor. It's not.

Instead of:

List limitations of heavy armor. Adjust all of those to medium armor values as per rules.

Your interpretation is:

Adjust all aspects of heavy armor to medium armor values. Check to see if any are limitations of medium armor as well. If so, adjust them again.

 

[hong]

Greater Ironward Diamond is not a limitation of the normal version of heavy armor. It's actually an advantage.

No, it's a limitation of the ironward diamond.

 

[James McMurray]

Karinsdad, beyond "I'm adding this phrase" which you've already admitted to doing, do you have anything? If not, you're not going to change anyone's minds by repeating yourself when the arguments didn't work the first time around.

 

[boolean]

Mithral Full Plate is not Medium Armor.

Many sources indicate that WotC disagrees with you.

 

[KarinsDad]

No, it's a limitation of the ironward diamond.

With respect to non-heavy armor. Not with respect to heavy armor.

 

[hong]

With respect to non-heavy armor. Not with respect to heavy armor.

No, it's a limitation of the ironward diamond.