Microlite20 : the smallest thing in gaming

[Bretbo]

Congrats, Wulf, on the "being official" and all that.

OK, here is the updated, edited (a little bit, anyway) and layed out verison of Microlite20 Modern. Enjoy.

 

[greywulf]

There you go. I've added in the rules for Fighter's attack and damage bonuses, Sneak attacks and Turn Undead to http://home.greywulf.net/files/Microlite20.pdf for your review. I know. I wasn't going to do this until tomorrow, but today was tomorrow yesterday, so I'm ok with that one.

Please let me know what y'all think.

Bretbo, thanks for the update on the Modern. You've cut it down to just 2 pages in true Microlite20 style I like.

I'd say that you could remove more by just saying

"Stats, Races, Magic, Combat, Name and Starting Equipment, Other Hazards and Level Advancement are as per the Microlite20 Core Rules modified as appropriate for your campaign."

at the start of the text. It's a small formating change that should free up enough room to add an Equipment list.

Also, there's no magic-wielding core class. How about using the same classes from the (revised) Core Doc above, but with only a +1 bonus to the skills. This means each class has something unique (better to-hit and damage, sneak attack, Turn Undead and spells) but it's the Occupations will dictate the bulk of the bonus skill ranks. I like that. Just rename the Base Classes from Core to something more Modern and you're done.

Just my thoughts

Keep up the good work.

 

[MeepoDM]

I wasn't going to do this until tomorrow, but today was tomorrow yesterday, so I'm ok with that one.

You just blew my mind...

 

[Sadrik]

Sadrik; it's good to see the changes you've made, I'm glad you like it. I must admit, some of them aren't to my taste (Agility /and/ Athletics as a skill? Why?)

Well, my thought here was it really bothered me that the fighter got +3 to reflex and to fortitude. And the rogue got neither. But really that not a sticking point.
The magic skill is a different matter. It should be there to shore up the special cases you have provided in your rules. Special rules are ok. They are even more ok in a very simple rpg but they are still special rules. So, after using your skill break down post. I extrapolated the magic skill along with how your will save worked to shore up those special rules.

Again, some of what you've done might find it's way into the House Rules .pdf.

Thanks.

As to save DCs for spells - I like that they don't scale. Call me kooky, but I reckon 20th level Magi should be able to call down the thunder and all that anyone can do is run for cover, not make some dum-ass Reflex-save and still be in the same spot. High-level magic should be feared, not brushed away because of a good save. But hey, what do I know? Again, if you don't like it, change it - there'll probably be House Rules about this too, to suit every campagin level.

Conceptually I agree that a 20th level magi (why are you calling it a magi instead of a wizard?) should be able to, "Call down the thunder." So does that mean that you think the reflex save should be removed? Because as you have the rules right now they come no where near able to, "Call down the thunder."

Example: say a 20th level wizard with a 20 MIND (+5) casts meteor swarm. His DC would be 10 + 9 (spell level) +5 or DC 24. He shoots bob the warrior with it. Bob the warrior is 15th level and he has a specialty in physical. So he has: 1d20 +18 + DEX. As you can see that easily outstrips the DC of the spell.

That is why I suggested the wizard's DC add like this:
10 + wizard level (20) + MIND (+5) = 35
At least that is a little more difficult for the fighter to deal with.

So, wizards dont bring the thunder. My save thing was to try and fix that.

 

[DJCupboard]

Greywulf, I like the idea of turning as a class ability (to match up with sneak attack and fighters' plusses) rather than as a spell. Maybe to compensate, reduce their signature spell benefits (while keeping the mechanic in place for the reasons you originally cited), and increasing the Mage's signature spell benefits to bring them up with everyone else's extra abilities (maybe something that scales by level, as has been previously suggested [something like an aditional minus 1 hp per 5 levels, max cap Mind Mod]).

Congrats, Wulf, on the "being official" and all that.

OK, here is the updated, edited (a little bit, anyway) and layed out verison of Microlite20 Modern. Enjoy.

Hate to be a stickler, but I really like this Modern expansion (eek!), so far. The only problem I see is that there are rules for magic as per m20, but nobody to take advantage of them (EDIT: as greywulf pointed out while I was busy not posting this message), . I'm leary of adding advanced classes that can use magic,as that gets way to far away from what microlite is supposed to do, but at the same time, I think professions that gain access would rediculously overpower the other professions. In the vein of that other Modern, I think magic should be secret and out of the hands of starting characters, so maybe items that grant limited spellcasting, or something (EDIT: Like a book that gives access to spellcasting equal to half or third of your Hero level as a Mage or Cleric but reduces something else about you [a stat, skill ranks, etc.])

 

[bytor4232]

Bretbo, thanks for the update on the Modern. You've cut it down to just 2 pages in true Microlite20 style I like.

I'd say that you could remove more by just saying

"Stats, Races, Magic, Combat, Name and Starting Equipment, Other Hazards and Level Advancement are as per the Microlite20 Core Rules modified as appropriate for your campaign."

at the start of the text. It's a small formating change that should free up enough room to add an Equipment list.

The main equipment your going to need is firearms. I can't think of anything else thats "necessary" in the context of Microlite20.

Also, there's no magic-wielding core class. How about using the same classes from the (revised) Core Doc above, but with only a +1 bonus to the skills. This means each class has something unique (better to-hit and damage, sneak attack, Turn Undead and spells) but it's the Occupations will dictate the bulk of the bonus skill ranks. I like that. Just rename the Base Classes from Core to something more Modern and you're done.

I don't believe there should be a magic wielding core class, nor a divine wielding core class either. If someone wants a "priest" then have them do cleric from the core. Same with mages. Most people playing Microlite20 Modern will be looking to shoot things up, or play 007, if you catch my drift.

There you go. I've added in the rules for Fighter's attack and damage bonuses, Sneak attacks and Turn Undead to http://home.greywulf.net/files/Microlite20.pdf for your review. I know. I wasn't going to do this until tomorrow, but today was tomorrow yesterday, so I'm ok with that one.

Please let me know what y'all think.

I like it! If this is official, I'll process a pocketmod.

 

[MeepoDM]

Greywulf, I like the idea of turning as a class ability (to match up with sneak attack and fighters' plusses) rather than as a spell.

Ideally, I would too. However in this case, I like the idea of it acting as a spell more. Giving the Cleric another ability (on top of access to decent armor & weapons + unlimited spellcasting) could potentially throw out the Class Balance as it stands currently. IMO, of course.

 

[bytor4232]

Congrats, Wulf, on the "being official" and all that.

OK, here is the updated, edited (a little bit, anyway) and layed out verison of Microlite20 Modern. Enjoy.

Firearms and other modern equipment are missing. Other than that, it looks REALLY tasty.

My Suggestions:
1. Take out all the parts where it refrences Microlite20 Core, and say that once.
2. Put in a modern equipment list. Most important is Firearms.

Get me the RTF and I'll process it into a PocketMod for ya!

 

[Sadrik]

I agree feature creep is unneeded for this game. But further simplification or definition is definitely wanted/needed.

Weapons
Unarmed weapon: d4 (dagger, spiked gauntlet)
Light weapon: d6 (short sword, rapier, saber, scimitar, light mace, club)
Medium weapon: d8 (longsword, battle axe, warhammer, morning star)
Heavy weapon: d10 (bastard sword, war axe, war club, heavy mace)
Great weapon: d12 (greatclub, great sword, great axe)

Light ranged weapon: d4 (sling, hand crossbow)
Medium ranged weapon: d6 (short bow, crossbow)
Heavy ranged weapon: d8 (longbow, heavy crossbow)

This should be in these game rules.

No specific weapons that bog down and have special cases.

short sword is fundamentally just a light weapon that does 1d6. How you describe the weapon is up to the player or DM.

Armor
Light armor: +2 AC (leather, studded leather, chain shirt)
Medium armor: +5 AC (chain mail, breast plate)
Heavy armor: +8 AC (plate mail, banded mail, splint mail)
Shield: +2 AC (covers all shields)

 

[MeepoDM]

I agree feature creep is unneeded for this game. But further simplification or definition is definitely wanted/needed.

Weapons
Unarmed weapon: d4 (dagger, spiked gauntlet)
Light weapon: d6 (short sword, rapier, saber, scimitar, light mace, club)
Medium weapon: d8 (longsword, battle axe, warhammer, morning star)
Heavy weapon: d10 (bastard sword, war axe, war club, heavy mace)
Great weapon: d12 (greatclub, great sword, great axe)

Light ranged weapon: d4 (sling, hand crossbow)
Medium ranged weapon: d6 (short bow, crossbow)
Heavy ranged weapon: d8 (longbow, heavy crossbow)

This should be in these game rules.

No specific weapons that bog down and have special cases.

short sword is fundamentally just a light weapon that does 1d6. How you describe the weapon is up to the player or DM.

Armor
Light armor: +2 AC (leather, studded leather, chain shirt)
Medium armor: +5 AC (chain mail, breast plate)
Heavy armor: +8 AC (plate mail, banded mail, splint mail)
Shield: +2 AC (covers all shields)

OK, I seriously like this idea!! Removing the critical ranges on the weapons list made many of them obsolete. This system really sums 'em up nicely and leaves the weapon choices a matter of visualization over what has the biggest dice for damage. The summary of armor is excellent as well, since removing skill penalties did the same thing.

Consider this *YOINKED*!