WotC Mike Mearls: "D&D Is Uncool Again"

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In Mike Mearls' recent interview with Ben Riggs, he talks about how he feels that Dungeons & Dragons has had its moment, and is now uncool again. Mearls was one of the lead designers of D&D 5E and became the franchise's Creative Director in 2018. He worked at WotC until he was laid off in 2023. He is now EP of roleplaying games at Chaosium, the publisher of Call of Chulhu.

My theory is that when you look back at the OGL, the real impact of it is that it made D&D uncool again. D&D was cool, right? You had Joe Manganiello and people like that openly talking about playing D&D. D&D was something that was interesting, creative, fun, and different. And I think what the OGL did was take that concept—that Wizards and this idea of creativity that is inherent in the D&D brand because it's a roleplaying game, and I think those two things were sundered. And I don’t know if you can ever put them back together.

I think, essentially, it’s like that phrase: The Mandate of Heaven. I think fundamentally what happened was that Wizards has lost the Mandate of Heaven—and I don’t see them even trying to get it back.

What I find fascinating is that it was Charlie Hall who wrote that article. This is the same Charlie Hall who wrote glowing reviews of the 5.5 rulebooks. And then, at the same time, he’s now writing, "This is your chance because D&D seems to be stumbling." How do you square that? How do I go out and say, "Here are the two new Star Wars movies. They’re the best, the most amazing, the greatest Star Wars movies ever made. By the way, Star Wars has never been weaker. Now is the time for other sci-fi properties", like, to me that doesn’t make any sense! To me, it’s a context thing again.

Maybe this is the best Player’s Handbook ever written—but the vibes, the audience, the people playing these games—they don’t seem excited about it. We’re not seeing a groundswell of support and excitement. Where are the third-party products? That’s what I'd ask. Because that's what you’d think, "oh, there’s a gap", I mean remember before the OGL even came up, back when 3.0 launched, White Wolf had a monster book. There were multiple adventures at Gen Con. The license wasn’t even official yet, and there were already adventures showing up in stores. We're not seeing that, what’s ostensibly the new standard going forward? If anything, we’re seeing the opposite—creators are running in the opposite direction. I mean, that’s where I’m going.

And hey—to plug my Patreon—patreon.com/mikemearls (one word). This time last year, when I was looking at my post-Wizards options, I thought, "Well, maybe I could start doing 5E-compatible stuff." And now what I’m finding is…I just don’t want to. Like—it just seems boring. It’s like trying to start a hair metal band in 1992. Like—No, no, no. Everyone’s mopey and we're wearing flannel. It's Seattle and rain. It’s Nirvana now, man. It’s not like Poison. And that’s the vibe I get right now, yeah, Poison was still releasing albums in the ’90s. They were still selling hundreds of thousands or a million copies. But they didn’t have any of the energy. It's moved on. But what’s interesting to me is that roleplaying game culture is still there. And that’s what I find fascinating about gaming in general—especially TTRPGs. I don’t think we’ve ever had a period where TTRPGs were flourishing, and had a lot of energy and excitement around them, and D&D wasn’t on the upswing. Because I do think that’s what’s happening now. We’re in very strange waters where I think D&D is now uncool.
 

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A lot of people said the "days of glory" of Word of Warcraft had ended but today it is still the number one of the MMORPGs. Somebody could say Fortnite is not so popular like before but today is the most famous battle royal. The last titles of the marvel cinematic universe don't make the same level of money but I still see merchandising of marvel superheroes I didn't when I was a preteen.

The brand of D&D in the videogame industry doesn't too much if we compare to other IPs, and lots of videogame studios want to sell us their own version of Everquest or Warcraft.

Although Hasbro wanted to sell D&D toys these aren't the dream by the current generation of childrens, who would rather videoconsoles.

Other sign is the good health of the retroclones. If there is a high number of published titles this should mean good sales and then a great number of players.

It is too soon to say the brand has lost its spark when only it is not of the top of the wave now.
 

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I think most of the change Mike is seeing is generational and a consequence of D&D moving away from being part of the counterculture.

Critical Role is ten years old now. The fans who came in with it have grown up, gotten jobs, had kids, etc. 10 years is also enough to realize that the rules are not the hobby.

The rising tide raised all ships, but because tabletop roleplaying has been more normalized, there isn't the same pressure to "prove your allegiance" by re-upping with the "flagship".
 

Instead, I think the key is doing new stuff that is just exciting for any D&D fan. Put the focus on the future, and get people to stop looking to the past.

Scenario A: New book comes out, updates the artificer, four subclasses, and includes four new subclasses. In this case, if you already play D&D you're not getting a lot of actual new content. It undercuts the update not being a new edition.

Scenario B: New book comes out, summoner character class, eight new subclasses. In that case, you're focusing on the interesting new stuff that's coming out. It focuses on what's new and interesting. If you haven't updated, it makes you want to update.
Exactly this. It's why my primary complaint about the 2024 books has always been the fact that they didn't make the new PHB a standalone expansion.

Do a slight revising of the classes as they did, redo the core 12 subclasses that are in the SRD, and then do nothing but new subclasses.

I would have preordered the book if they had added 30 new subclasses and a bunch of new new feats and spells.
 
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Exactly this. It's why my primary complaint about the 2024 has always been the fact that they didn't make the new PHB a standalone expansion.

Do a slight revising of the classes as they did, redo the core 12 subclasses that are in the SRD, and then do nothing but new subclasses.

I would have preordered the book if they had added 30 new subclasses and a bunch of new new feats and spells.
Me too, believe it or not. Big fan of more options here.
 

Exactly this. It's why my primary complaint about the 2024 has always been the fact that they didn't make the new PHB a standalone expansion.

Do a slight revising of the classes as they did, redo the core 12 subclasses that are in the SRD, and then do nothing but new subclasses.

I would have preordered the book if they had added 30 new subclasses and a bunch of new new feats and spells.
It is very strange that 5e seemingly continues to be allergic to content expansions. I sort of understand that as a differentiating factor early on the in the line's release, but a decade on it's definitely starting to look shabby.
 

It is very strange that 5e seemingly continues to be allergic to content expansions. I sort of understand that as a differentiating factor early on the in the line's release, but a decade on it's definitely starting to look shabby.
I mean, in the 10 years from 2000-2010 WotC released at least 40 official classes for 3e, hundreds of PrCs, and then a whole new edition which managed to release 23 classes, themes, and dozens of Paragon Paths/Epic Destinies.

In the 10+ years from 2014 until now, WotC has released the 12 core classes, the artificer (twice), and a few dozen subclasses.
 

It is very strange that 5e seemingly continues to be allergic to content expansions.
that actually is great about it, nothing kills an edition faster than an ever expanding list of new crunch

I mean, in the 10 years from 2000-2010 WotC released at least 40 official classes for 3e, hundreds of PrCs, and then a whole new edition which managed to release 23 classes, themes, and dozens of Paragon Paths/Epic Destinies.
and none of that did them any good…
 

The explanation I've seen is that supposedly more content was being released in the pre-5E days than there was actual demand for, which seems wild to me.
 

The explanation I've seen is that supposedly more content was being released in the pre-5E days than there was actual demand for, which seems wild to me.

Yeah that was 2E. 3E and 4E as well.

3E had 50 odd classes iirc. I think I saw maybe 3 used outside the phb. Might be 1 or 2.

I've been rereading a lot of 3.5 FR stuff lately. Barely used any of it. I bought it players don't know/care that it exists.
 

When did all this change in the perception of 5.5E happen? I mean, it seems like not long ago that talk of being not impressed by the new books and not seeing a lot of enthusiasm for it was met with "This is the greatest, fastest-selling edition ever!"

I'm dating myself as older, but I'm thinking of the Ferris Bueler quote, "Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it." Did I miss the halcyon days of 5.5E already?

The 5.5E Monster Manual is just launching, and so we're just reaching the end of the core book release, is the party over already?

This is coming off pretty snippy, and I don't mean it to be that way. I just feel like the excitement for the new books has come to a halt like a record player with the needle being yanked up.
 

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