WotC Mike Mearls: "D&D Is Uncool Again"

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In Mike Mearls' recent interview with Ben Riggs, he talks about how he feels that Dungeons & Dragons has had its moment, and is now uncool again. Mearls was one of the lead designers of D&D 5E and became the franchise's Creative Director in 2018. He worked at WotC until he was laid off in 2023. He is now EP of roleplaying games at Chaosium, the publisher of Call of Chulhu.

My theory is that when you look back at the OGL, the real impact of it is that it made D&D uncool again. D&D was cool, right? You had Joe Manganiello and people like that openly talking about playing D&D. D&D was something that was interesting, creative, fun, and different. And I think what the OGL did was take that concept—that Wizards and this idea of creativity that is inherent in the D&D brand because it's a roleplaying game, and I think those two things were sundered. And I don’t know if you can ever put them back together.

I think, essentially, it’s like that phrase: The Mandate of Heaven. I think fundamentally what happened was that Wizards has lost the Mandate of Heaven—and I don’t see them even trying to get it back.

What I find fascinating is that it was Charlie Hall who wrote that article. This is the same Charlie Hall who wrote glowing reviews of the 5.5 rulebooks. And then, at the same time, he’s now writing, "This is your chance because D&D seems to be stumbling." How do you square that? How do I go out and say, "Here are the two new Star Wars movies. They’re the best, the most amazing, the greatest Star Wars movies ever made. By the way, Star Wars has never been weaker. Now is the time for other sci-fi properties", like, to me that doesn’t make any sense! To me, it’s a context thing again.

Maybe this is the best Player’s Handbook ever written—but the vibes, the audience, the people playing these games—they don’t seem excited about it. We’re not seeing a groundswell of support and excitement. Where are the third-party products? That’s what I'd ask. Because that's what you’d think, "oh, there’s a gap", I mean remember before the OGL even came up, back when 3.0 launched, White Wolf had a monster book. There were multiple adventures at Gen Con. The license wasn’t even official yet, and there were already adventures showing up in stores. We're not seeing that, what’s ostensibly the new standard going forward? If anything, we’re seeing the opposite—creators are running in the opposite direction. I mean, that’s where I’m going.

And hey—to plug my Patreon—patreon.com/mikemearls (one word). This time last year, when I was looking at my post-Wizards options, I thought, "Well, maybe I could start doing 5E-compatible stuff." And now what I’m finding is…I just don’t want to. Like—it just seems boring. It’s like trying to start a hair metal band in 1992. Like—No, no, no. Everyone’s mopey and we're wearing flannel. It's Seattle and rain. It’s Nirvana now, man. It’s not like Poison. And that’s the vibe I get right now, yeah, Poison was still releasing albums in the ’90s. They were still selling hundreds of thousands or a million copies. But they didn’t have any of the energy. It's moved on. But what’s interesting to me is that roleplaying game culture is still there. And that’s what I find fascinating about gaming in general—especially TTRPGs. I don’t think we’ve ever had a period where TTRPGs were flourishing, and had a lot of energy and excitement around them, and D&D wasn’t on the upswing. Because I do think that’s what’s happening now. We’re in very strange waters where I think D&D is now uncool.
 

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When did all this change in the perception of 5.5E happen? I mean, it seems like not long ago that talk of being not impressed by the new books and not seeing a lot of enthusiasm for it was met with "This is the greatest, fastest-selling edition ever!"
It's easier to be excited for a revised version before it comes out, because you can project onto it exactly what you want to see. Lots of people now have the books and have found that WotC haven't made the right changes (though nobody can agree what those are - for some this is a minor update, for some it's a 5.5e that they don't want, for some it's a 5.5e that they would have welcomed but not like this...)

One other thing: back when 3.5e was released, Monte Cook (who had been one of the key three on 3.0e) was fairly scathing about it. So hearing Mike Mearls being very critical of what he terms 5.5e is interesting - it seems history does indeed repeat itself.
 

It's easier to be excited for a revised version before it comes out, because you can project onto it exactly what you want to see. Lots of people now have the books and have found that WotC haven't made the right changes (though nobody can agree what those are - for some this is a minor update, for some it's a 5.5e that they don't want, for some it's a 5.5e that they would have welcomed but not like this...)

One other thing: back when 3.5e was released, Monte Cook (who had been one of the key three on 3.0e) was fairly scathing about it. So hearing Mike Mearls being very critical of what he terms 5.5e is interesting - it seems history does indeed repeat itself.
Yeap, thats the edition churn cycle. You hear about an update and everyone starts thinking about the things they want added/changed. Others are holding out hope for an entire overhaul. Others still want no changes at all. That all tumbles in the wash through speculation, preview, and finally release. The final stage is acceptance as those same folks lament things were not wholesale changed, changed the way they expected, or changed at all. In a year or two folks will just roll with it until the next churn.
 

Me personally, I'm struggling to think of anything in the revised books that I don't like. All three books seem to have been improved in terms of mechanics, presentation, art direction, layout, etc. The reduction in lore in the new Monster Manual is a bit of a bummer, but that's about it for me. The other DMs I know personally have also all been entirely positive about the revisions.
 

There are. There's a few relentless positivity types as well. They'll dismiss anything negative WotC does and any information that conflicts with preconceived notions. Tgat started around 2008.

Eg the book scan data indicated new adventures were selling less than order ones in launch windows (not life time sales).

I've been indifferent since around 2021. Tashas didn't really do it for me espically cf Xanathars.

The relentless positivity types are almost unique to ENworld as well.

Haven't you been predicting the imminent demise of D&D for the past decade or so? ;)

As far as whether people are excited all I can say is that the people I actually play with like the new stuff. It's a slightly smaller sample size than what you see online but not by much.
 

Haven't you been predicting the imminent demise of D&D for the past decade or so? ;)

As far as whether people are excited all I can say is that the people I actually play with like the new stuff. It's a slightly smaller sample size than what you see online but not by much.

Wwll between 2015-16 and 2022 I thought it was booming.

The bookscan data changed that perception.

I don't think it's collapsing but eventually it will plateau.

Revisions generally sel less eg 2E to 1E or 3.0 to 3.5.
 

Hello all, long-time lurker, first time poster.

I've been thinking about the statement of "D&D is uncool" again and wanted to chime in with some thoughts from a young-ish millenial.

The original D&D seems to be directly influenced by what (fantasy) fiction Gygax and his friends have read at the time. They made a game to play out stories inspired by Tolkien, Vance, HP Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard et al. If you were a nerd back in the day, you probably recognized those references immediately and got excited about it. (I'm a millenial, I wasn't there, but I assume that's what happened from reading blogs)

D&D 5e came out in 2014 fresh after what I'd say a lot of fresh new cultural and medieval fantasy touchstones such as Skyrim (2011, FEELING OLD YET?), Game of Thrones (2011-19), Witcher 3 (2015) and its emphasis on accessibility and heroic roleplaying definitely made people excited to play a game where you can play stories just like it. And those pieces of media also built on the prior fantasy canon.

Fast forward to 2024/25, what do we care about now? What kind of stories have come out since the COVID Era do we want to emulate and lose ourselves in? What is a piece of media, be it book, tv or video game we all have collectively experienced and serves as a fantasy lingua franca and is conducive to be ran over the table?

It seems like a period of relative popularity for medieval fantasy has passed, media preferences are shifting and we don't know where we are going to land yet and what kind of stories we want to play. And that is IMO why nobody is excited to play PHB24.
Audience members just aren't emotionally excited to (medieval) fantasy roleplay and to some it might have become stale. I think games like D&D will enter a relative lull phase until the zeitgeist swings towards it again and it probably doesn't even have to do much with the quality of the game, monster manual statblocks or Hasbro/WotC Leadership competency themselves.
 

Just keep in mind D&D is uncool is just an opinion. Few of us have been saying it since the book scan data.

Refresh may reinvigorate things. They also don't need to beat peak 2014 just valley 2014.

Eternal growth won't happen. Beyond might milk the whales so income might go up.
 

Just fyi as I was on gamefound looking at the massive darknessI pledge for 5e an decided to look on Kickstarter for 5e related items:
Kickstarter search….5e under games then table top, 54 live projects of which 42 so have reached the funding goal. 27 under 1k pledged, 15 in the 1k to 10k pledged, 10 in the 10k to 100k pledge range, 2 in the 100k to 1M range. None over 1M right now.

Never looked previously like this for active projects before just I may check at the start for each month and see how it compares and if people and businesses are making 5e things.
 

Hello all, long-time lurker, first time poster.

I've been thinking about the statement of "D&D is uncool" again and wanted to chime in with some thoughts from a young-ish millenial.

The original D&D seems to be directly influenced by what (fantasy) fiction Gygax and his friends have read at the time. They made a game to play out stories inspired by Tolkien, Vance, HP Lovecraft, Robert E. Howard et al. If you were a nerd back in the day, you probably recognized those references immediately and got excited about it. (I'm a millenial, I wasn't there, but I assume that's what happened from reading blogs)

D&D 5e came out in 2014 fresh after what I'd say a lot of fresh new cultural and medieval fantasy touchstones such as Skyrim (2011, FEELING OLD YET?), Game of Thrones (2011-19), Witcher 3 (2015) and its emphasis on accessibility and heroic roleplaying definitely made people excited to play a game where you can play stories just like it. And those pieces of media also built on the prior fantasy canon.

Fast forward to 2024/25, what do we care about now? What kind of stories have come out since the COVID Era do we want to emulate and lose ourselves in? What is a piece of media, be it book, tv or video game we all have collectively experienced and serves as a fantasy lingua franca and is conducive to be ran over the table?

It seems like a period of relative popularity for medieval fantasy has passed, media preferences are shifting and we don't know where we are going to land yet and what kind of stories we want to play. And that is IMO why nobody is excited to play PHB24.
Audience members just aren't emotionally excited to (medieval) fantasy roleplay and to some it might have become stale. I think games like D&D will enter a relative lull phase until the zeitgeist swings towards it again and it probably doesn't even have to do much with the quality of the game, monster manual statblocks or Hasbro/WotC Leadership competency themselves.

I agree with you except I think plenty of people are excited to play it. They're just not talking about it online.

For the last 10 years I've seen people say over and over that D&D is not actually popular and WotC are lying about how many people are playing because those people aren't seeing the surge in player numbers in places they go. The same is true of how many non-men play. They aren't playing with them and they mostly see men at gaming stores, so that must be made up too.

I think the reality is that people are playing D&D with their friends in their homes and not talking much about it.
 

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