WotC Mike Mearls: "D&D Is Uncool Again"

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In Mike Mearls' recent interview with Ben Riggs, he talks about how he feels that Dungeons & Dragons has had its moment, and is now uncool again. Mearls was one of the lead designers of D&D 5E and became the franchise's Creative Director in 2018. He worked at WotC until he was laid off in 2023. He is now EP of roleplaying games at Chaosium, the publisher of Call of Chulhu.

My theory is that when you look back at the OGL, the real impact of it is that it made D&D uncool again. D&D was cool, right? You had Joe Manganiello and people like that openly talking about playing D&D. D&D was something that was interesting, creative, fun, and different. And I think what the OGL did was take that concept—that Wizards and this idea of creativity that is inherent in the D&D brand because it's a roleplaying game, and I think those two things were sundered. And I don’t know if you can ever put them back together.

I think, essentially, it’s like that phrase: The Mandate of Heaven. I think fundamentally what happened was that Wizards has lost the Mandate of Heaven—and I don’t see them even trying to get it back.

What I find fascinating is that it was Charlie Hall who wrote that article. This is the same Charlie Hall who wrote glowing reviews of the 5.5 rulebooks. And then, at the same time, he’s now writing, "This is your chance because D&D seems to be stumbling." How do you square that? How do I go out and say, "Here are the two new Star Wars movies. They’re the best, the most amazing, the greatest Star Wars movies ever made. By the way, Star Wars has never been weaker. Now is the time for other sci-fi properties", like, to me that doesn’t make any sense! To me, it’s a context thing again.

Maybe this is the best Player’s Handbook ever written—but the vibes, the audience, the people playing these games—they don’t seem excited about it. We’re not seeing a groundswell of support and excitement. Where are the third-party products? That’s what I'd ask. Because that's what you’d think, "oh, there’s a gap", I mean remember before the OGL even came up, back when 3.0 launched, White Wolf had a monster book. There were multiple adventures at Gen Con. The license wasn’t even official yet, and there were already adventures showing up in stores. We're not seeing that, what’s ostensibly the new standard going forward? If anything, we’re seeing the opposite—creators are running in the opposite direction. I mean, that’s where I’m going.

And hey—to plug my Patreon—patreon.com/mikemearls (one word). This time last year, when I was looking at my post-Wizards options, I thought, "Well, maybe I could start doing 5E-compatible stuff." And now what I’m finding is…I just don’t want to. Like—it just seems boring. It’s like trying to start a hair metal band in 1992. Like—No, no, no. Everyone’s mopey and we're wearing flannel. It's Seattle and rain. It’s Nirvana now, man. It’s not like Poison. And that’s the vibe I get right now, yeah, Poison was still releasing albums in the ’90s. They were still selling hundreds of thousands or a million copies. But they didn’t have any of the energy. It's moved on. But what’s interesting to me is that roleplaying game culture is still there. And that’s what I find fascinating about gaming in general—especially TTRPGs. I don’t think we’ve ever had a period where TTRPGs were flourishing, and had a lot of energy and excitement around them, and D&D wasn’t on the upswing. Because I do think that’s what’s happening now. We’re in very strange waters where I think D&D is now uncool.
 

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Monopoly is good at some things but bad at others. Same is true for Carcassonne. One potential issue is that people believe that Monopoly can do everything good, with little to no weaknesses, and/or spend their time trying to hack Monopoly to do what other pre-existing boardgames do well. Others can't conceive of boardgames as working any other way than how Monopoly does it. And I think that this ignores how sometimes the people who enthusiastically play Monopoly also spend their time likewise undercutting other games or depicting their rules as badwrongfun.
Reading between the lines, if you're equating these toxic Monopoly players to D&D players, and Carcassonne to -- take your pick of non-D&D games -- I don't buy it. I don't see a bunch of people coming into these threads for the sole purpose of trashing Pathfinder, Blades in the Dark, Call of Cthulhu, Apocalypse World, Savage Worlds, Shadow of the Demon Lord, Dungeon Crawl Classics, Dragonbane, etc. etc. But I do see a lot of people diving into threads just to trash the current version of D&D.
 

Reading between the lines, if you're equating these toxic Monopoly players to D&D players, and Carcassonne to -- take your pick of non-D&D games -- I don't buy it. I don't see a bunch of people coming into these threads for the sole purpose of trashing Pathfinder, Blades in the Dark, Call of Cthulhu, Apocalypse World, Savage Worlds, Shadow of the Demon Lord, Dungeon Crawl Classics, Dragonbane, etc. etc. But I do see a lot of people diving into threads just to trash the current version of D&D.
Then you definitely have selective viewing when non-D&D games get regularly trashed here. There are people who regularly derail discussions of non-D&D games here and call them dysfunctional games, not true roleplaying games, or badwrongfun.
 


Is D&D uncool outside the rpg social media echo chamber? The Questing Beast Youtube channel seems to think the social media bubble is wrong. I think it’s a case of a 20-80 split. Only 20% think its uncool. The 80% like D&D regardless or are not aware of events.
 

I think it may be a case that the detractors want D&D to fall out the spotlight, so they can "reclaim" it from the bandwagoneers.

It may fall out of the spotlight, but I don't think it will go back to what it was before. It's more likely D&D will just get shelved when popularity drops beyond the point of profitability.

But, that's why we have retroclones and our old books for.
 

Then you definitely have selective viewing when non-D&D games get regularly trashed here. There are people who regularly derail discussions of non-D&D games here and call them dysfunctional games, not true roleplaying games, or badwrongfun.

I've seen people say a type of game isn't for them, especially pbta games. Some people don't like 4E and can explain while which always seems to cause a ruckus. There's a difference between "I don't like X" if it comes up in conversation and going onto a forum dedicated to the current version of DnD and telling everyone repeatedly that it's terrible and you wished it didn't exist.
 

Then you definitely have selective viewing when non-D&D games get regularly trashed here. There are people who regularly derail discussions of non-D&D games here and call them dysfunctional games, not true roleplaying games, or badwrongfun.
I haven't seen too much of this on Enworld. I think there are a lot of people who don't have much experience with other games, and when we start talking about stuff like "The Conversation" it tends to have smaller groups responding. A couple of times when I've been discussing "play to find out" and similar PbtA concepts, it hasn't been received negatively. I think 4E is the game that gets the most derision, followed unfortunately by 5.5E. Now I am also on other sites where we discuss RPGs and I do see that fairly often there, so I know what you're talking about, but I think Enworld is better than the norm.
 


I tend to find it is ubiquitous. Like when I started a thread on advice for new "story now" GMs, and had posters come to the thread to argue why "story now" is bad RPGing.
There are some folks that just cant help themselves. I, myself, know that if I dont like "story now" I should stay out of threads that talk about playing them. Now, a thread that asks my opinion on "story now", ok I was asked. I mean, there was a thread about "what podcasts folks listen to" and the 3 out of the first 5 responses where, "none, I dont listen to any"...
 

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