Mike Mearls on D&D Psionics: Should Psionic Flavor Be Altered?

WotC's Mike Mearls has been asking for opinions on how psionics should be treated in D&D 5th Edition. I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that he'd hinted that he might be working on something, and this pretty much seals the deal. He asked yesterday "Agree/Disagree: The flavor around psionics needs to be altered to allow it to blend more smoothly into a traditional fantasy setting", and then followed up with some more comments today.

"Thanks for all the replies! Theoretically, were I working on psionics, I'd try to set some high bars for the execution. Such as - no psionic power duplicates a spell, and vice versa. Psionics uses a distinct mechanic, so no spell slots. One thing that might be controversial - I really don't like the scientific terminology, like psychokinesis, etc. But I think a psionicist should be exotic and weird, and drawing on/tied to something unsettling on a cosmic scale.... [but]... I think the source of psi would be pretty far from the realm of making pacts. IMO, old one = vestige from 3e's Tome of Magic.

One final note - Dark Sun is, IMO, a pretty good example of what happens to a D&D setting when psionic energy reaches its peak. Not that the rules would require it, but I think it's an interesting idea to illustrate psi's relationship to magic on a cosmic level."

 

[exile]

So, this thread is pretty long, and I can't bring myself to read it. In editions past, if memory serves, psionics interacyed with magic as though it were simply another form of magic. I like to think that psionics is not magic, simply the power of the human mind unleashed; and the two don't/shouldn't interact. Sci-fi sprinkled very, very judiciously into magic/fantasy world.

 

[Remathilis]

My dream set up...

Psion: full class, with 5 subclasses (kineticist, telepath, egoist, seer, nomad).
Psychic warrior: fighter subtype like EK for psionics.
Lurk: rogue subtype like AT for psionics.
Soul knife: monk subclass that gives mind blade to monk.
Wild Talent: feat that grants minor psionics to anyone, like magical adept.

More thoughts on this...

Psion. Full "caster" analogue; either akin to warlock or wizard in HD/Wpns/Armor (depending on how psionic rules are set up).
Kineticist: Specializes in Telekinesis. More "offensive" than other psions.
Telepath: Mind control and dominating. Can act as a face (charms) or can try to turn foes.
Egoist: Mind over Body powers; healing, shapeshifting, etc.
Nomad: Teleportation and transporation, but also some battlefield control.
Seer: Clairvoyant, master of divination-like powers and learning things.

Psychic Warrior. If psionics is truly different enough, a fighter subclass (as well as the rogue and monk versions) would work to make them feel "psionic" However, if psionics ends up being Spells in a different model (IE 3e psionics) then a paladin-like base class with its own subtypes (Soul Knife for Jedi, Battle Mind for a kinda leader-y type) might work.

 

[steeldragons]

Wait. Do we all agree that Psion deserves to be a full class? Is this true?

I believe so. GO TEAM PSI!

At the same time, I want psionic subclasses of normal classes, like Wizard, Cleric, and Bard, with normal mechanics, normal multiclassing, etcetera.

Other than the Psychic Warrior as a Figther sub, I really don't care about the rest. But I suppose they are inevitable.

Personally, I want a Psychic Warrior that is fully magical - a full caster.

Ah. And here's my stop on the We All Agree Express. Was fun while it lasted.

I want the Psion to fight magically at a distance for one archetype. But I also want the same Psion class to play like a Swordmage (or a Jedi), fighting completely magicially but in melee, for the Psywar archetype of the Psion class.

I tend to associate the Psywar with shapeshifting (transmutation, psychometabolism), so high Constitution for the Psywar archetype works ok.

Yeeeah. I don't think I would ever think of a Jedi as "fighting completely magically." They are trained to fight...and use magic while fighting. But they aren't (other than the guys with the blue lightning) fighting, really, "with magic"....as, I feel, would be necessary for a "full caster" type.

Edit to add: 'Course, I don't want to see an actual "Jedi" PC within a 100 light years of my D&D table, at all. But a psionic equivalent of an Eldritch Knight seems like a no-brainer (heh. ironically).

 

[Hussar]

My dream set up...

Psion: full class, with 5 subclasses (kineticist, telepath, egoist, seer, nomad).
Psychic warrior: fighter subtype like EK for psionics.
Lurk: rogue subtype like AT for psionics.
Soul knife: monk subclass that gives mind blade to monk.
Wild Talent: feat that grants minor psionics to anyone, like magical adept.

You want NINE psionic classes? Good grief.

 

[Yaarel]

Jedis fight blind, jump telekinetically, deflect attacks with force armor, and *never* use physical strength. Lightsabers require no muscle.

Plus they lift with their mind. And shoot lightning bolts.

Also telepathy and suggestion tricks.

Jedi = full caster



Compare 4e Swordmage. But psi.

 

[Yaarel]

You want NINE psionic classes? Good grief.

[Edit] Right, nine, including metacreativity.



Remathilis likes less 3e psionics, with its more normal spellcasting mechanics.

But 3e has a strong psi fandom. It seems a mistake to alienate them.

 

[Hussar]

Just to add to my thought about about nine subclasses.

If WOTC were to publish this, either pdf or book, doesn't matter, it would mean I wouldn't use it. It's far, far too much material. That's enough material to completely replace virtually every class in the game. I wouldn't use 90% of it. Anyone coming to my table wanting to play a psionicist would also be disappointed. I have no intention or reading another player's handbook worth of material just to play D&D. Psionics should add to the game, not overwhelm it.

I honestly think that if this is your benchmark of success, you're going to be disappointed. I'm thinking two, maybe three subclasses total. Anything more than that is just a waste.

 

[Yaarel]

That's enough material to completely replace virtually every class in the game.

Heh. To be fair. To replace every class in the game is the D&D psionic tradition.

(Plus psi feats.)

 

[Mercule]

Personally, I want a Psychic Warrior that is fully magical - a full caster.

I want the Psion to fight magically at a distance for one archetype. But I also want the same Psion class to play like a Swordmage (or a Jedi), fighting completely magicially but in melee, for the Psywar archetype of the Psion class.

Nope. Uh-uh. I see Psychic Warrior as being the psionic equivalent of either the Eldritch Knight or the Paladin. I don't really want to see anything that's truly Jedi-like in D&D, but the Psychic Warrior is as close as it gets -- but is half-caster, at best. A fully separate Psychic Warrior could obsolete the Monk, as well, but wouldn't be much more overtly "magical" (take the word as intended, let's skip the debate, please).

A full-caster psion should not be able to wade into melee. I get that there's a precedent with the Cleric, but I don't like how martially capable that class is, either. A Bladelock or Valor Bard is as martial as a full caster should get. Maybe that's what you mean. In either case, I do not like the idea of a single class being able to be as "magical" as a Wizard and as martial as a Paladin. That sets off gigantic klaxons in my head that the concept isn't defined well enough.

 

[Yaarel]

@Mercule

A Bard or Cleric psi archetype makes a great Psywar, competent in melee, and can excel at psychometabolic healing. Add force armor or shapeshift toughness to replace mundane armor.

The difference between a fully magical Wizard and a fully magical Swordmage, is the magic of the Swordmage happens within melee range (within the bodily aura), sometimes touching without weapons. By contrast, the Wizard tends to evade melee range casting from a distance.

Albeit, the Jedi is gishy in the sense of being able to mix melee magic and distance magic.