Mike Mearl's on simplifying skills in D&D

[Herzog]

of course, instead of adopting this skill system, you could just play OD&D.

although reversed (you check to roll under your ability instead of adding your ability to your roll) it's basically the same.

of course, you'd also miss out on feats, the split between race and class, etc.

D&D has come a long way since then, and going back to the originals within a new edition just seems silly to me...

Herzog

edit: refers to original post!

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

The biggest problem with Mikes idea is that it makes level irrelevant wrt skills. Having the same chance of success in your best abilities whether a 20th level hero or a 1st level neophyte goes completely against the basic principles of a 'level-based' game, while making buffing items and spells even more valuable.

There are a couple ways to address that. One is to allow a level-based bonus on skills that are "applicable" to the archetype/class. C&C's system of Primes also allows for tweaking a PC's "skill set" (e.g. Dexterous fighter, etc).

I think Mike's proposal needs some tweaking and fleshing out, but is a step in the right direction.

 

[Psion]

of course, instead of adopting this skill system, you could just play OD&D.

I was thinking or RC D&D, myself, since it has the "skill = attribute" thing. Cept you wouldn't need to add, so it'd be even easier.

But yeah. The skill system is probably the one reason I'd never play RC D&D.

 

[Garnfellow]

That's a far cry from scrapping skills and just using stats.

Some might call it throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Keep in mind, though, this is just a random musing on his blog -- not an actual proposal or even a thought experiment.

 

[Particle_Man]

This seems similar in theme to Castles and Crusades, where you have attribute checks for almost everything, but add you level if something is a class or racial ability, and have an easier DC if the attribute in question is one of the ones you specialize in (called a "prime").

[Ummm...scooped by absolutely everyone above this post, except the OP ]

 

[Klaus]

I like the basic thrust of his suggestion -- simplifying and consolidating the skills system, which to me is the one piece of 3.x that still needs serious work. Oh, there are plenty of things to tweak, but skills alone are the subsystem I would want to see drastically revised. Sure, it's a heck of a lot better than 2e's Non-Weapon Proficiency system, which was a lot better than nothing -- but the bang for your buck in terms of tracking all those skill points just isn't there. Even John Cooper doesn't generally bother trying to calculate skill points in his reviews.

Many of the OGL games already seem to be moving toward a simpler, grainier skill system. AE combines several skills, like Hide/Move Silently and Listen/Spot, as does True20. And as has been pointed out, Mearls has already come close to this with Iron Heroes skill groups.

One thing I really don't want in 3e is the mixing of Hide/Move Silently into Sneak and Listen/Spot into Notice or somesuch. For instance, my brother is a musician. He has a pretty keen hearing, but his sight sucks (shortsighted, like me). In 3.5e terms, he has ranks in Listen, but none in Spot. In a "mixing" version, he'd have Notice +3 (+6 to listen). How is that easier than just writing down Listen +6?

 

[Greg K]

Hell, no!
Based upon his work for AEG, FFG, and Mongoose, I thought Mr. Mearls going to WOTC would have been a good thing (yes, I don't like Iron Heroes and hoped it was a fluke). However, I now suspect that what I admire of his early work must have been the result of the guidelines set down by those for whom he worked, because I cannot stomach his redesigns or any other ideas that he has been sharing publicly since coming to WOTC.

 

[McBard]

I agree with simplifying the skills system, but think Mearls' blog idea goes too far. I say boil all skills down to about only nine: Acrobatics, Athletics, Devices, Lore, Perception, Social, Stealth, Theatrics, Wilderness Lore (and you could go further by combining Acrobatics/Athletics and Social/Theatrics to make a list of seven). Make all skills usuable untrained, but still have some sort of simple, low-number skill rank system.

Anyway, as a former Iron Heroes GM, I have to give Mike props for realizing his stunt system was, indeed, bloated.

 

[buzz]

One thing I really don't want in 3e is the mixing of Hide/Move Silently into Sneak and Listen/Spot into Notice or somesuch. For instance, my brother is a musician. He has a pretty keen hearing, but his sight sucks (shortsighted, like me). In 3.5e terms, he has ranks in Listen, but none in Spot. In a "mixing" version, he'd have Notice +3 (+6 to listen). How is that easier than just writing down Listen +6?

D&D isn't a reality-modeling engine. Having to split up ranks between skills that really should be grouped (and generally serve the same purpose) is a PITA. I want these skills merged like nobody's business.

If you really wanted to retain something like this, you could have feats that give phat bonuses when using Notice for hearing-related perception (pretty much what HERO does).

As for Mike's idea, I already commented on his blog that a) this is too simple, and b) IH already fixed a lot of issues with D&D, so what WotC needs to do is just have Mike cut and paste the skills chapter from IH into the 4e PHB.

 

[Greg K]

This from the guy who wrote Iron Heroes?


glass.

Well, considering how much I disliked Iron Heroes (including skill system) and his current monster redesigns, I am not surprised.