Minion rules and monster summoning

[Atlatl Jones]

The minion rules have gotten me thinking about monster summoning powers. 3e monster summoning added a lot of bookkeeping to the game, required lots of extra rolls for the player, and usually wasn't very effective.. When monster summoning powers are added to 4e (if they're not already in there), I strongly suspect that they will only summon minions. That way there's no HP to track, and no extra damage rolls. In 3e, summoned monsters were often little more than obstacles, because their attacks and ACs were ineffective for the level of the PC summoning them, but minions can have effective attacks and defenses for the level without being overpowering.

I also suspect that the powers will have the monster stats listed with them, and have the monsters be specifically designed for the power. That way it avoids having to cross reference the MM, and MM stats might be unbalanced for PC use.

 

[Starbuck_II]

The minion rules have gotten me thinking about monster summoning powers. 3e monster summoning added a lot of bookkeeping to the game, required lots of extra rolls for the player, and usually wasn't very effective.. When monster summoning powers are added to 4e (if they're not already in there), I strongly suspect that they will only summon minions. That way there's no HP to track, and no extra damage rolls. In 3e, summoned monsters were often little more than obstacles, because their attacks and ACs were ineffective for the level of the PC summoning them, but minions can have effective attacks and defenses for the level without being overpowering.

I also suspect that the powers will have the monster stats listed with them, and have the monsters be specifically designed for the power. That way it avoids having to cross reference the MM, and MM stats might be unbalanced for PC use.

Actually, 3.5 summons were not made to be obstacles: they were 70% spell casters. Whether stinking cloud or fear from the Dretch. Healing from the Warrior Archon or Aid spell from the Lantarn Archon.
Web attack from spiders (single target, no save, entangle for the win)

Lemures, Scorpians, centipedes, and other creatures were warriors. But they had linited useage.

 

[Jack99]

Perhaps in-combat powers to summon minions for the duration of the encounter (or till they die, whichever happens first), and rituals to summon bigger and badder monsters, for longer durations.

 

[AverageCitizen]

I would be pleased to find that minions were indeed used for summoning. I am a little wary, though. Minions are (apparently) exponentially stronger with greater numbers. What if the party had two casters? Would that many minions running around be a problem?

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

I would be pleased to find that minions were indeed used for summoning. I am a little wary, though. Minions are (apparently) exponentially stronger with greater numbers. What if the party had two casters? Would that many minions running around be a problem?

They are exponentially stronger with greater numbers? Where did you hear that? I thought it four minions was a pretty direct ratio with a single standard monster of the same type.

 

[Scribble]

They are exponentially stronger with greater numbers? Where did you hear that? I thought it four minions was a pretty direct ratio with a single standard monster of the same type.

Well depends on how you look at it I guess...

Theoretically everything is stronger in greater numbers...

The devil minions do have a +2 bonus when next to an ally, but I wouldn't call that exponential.

Not sure the minion rules will be used for summoning. Minions seem like simplified math for thinsg that will be gone in 1 hit anyway. is that what we'd ultimately want from a summoned monster?

I guess it ultimately depends on the monster summoned (though it will work difefrent in 4e as spells work difefrently)

in 3e if you summoned a low level monster against a high level foe, they effectively WERE minions...

 

[Spatula]

If you can summon tons of minions with one action, maybe. Otherwise, why would I give up an action to summon a few creatures that do 3 damage with their one attack and go down in one hit? You'd have to get a lot of summoned minions to make up for the damage done (or obstacles provided) by your average encounter or daily power.

 

[Asmor]

Call in the Goons
Warlord Daily
You muster 2d4 minions of an appropriate level. They run away at the end of the encounter.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi there!

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet (don't think so), but the Pit Fiend can summon either Minions or Standard Monsters.

I sort of think that its summoning ability may be the reason it has lower hit points than it should. Could be wrong though.

 

[Prodigal_Sun]

Wow great thinking , maybe you take damage when summoning. From blood loss/spiritual energy/whatever... needed to summon a creature. I could see this as a balancing mechanic, you could heal it but it would cost resources. That way summons can be powerful powers that take a heavy toll on the caster.