Minotaur Advancement Questions

[CRGreathouse]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Minotaur Advancement Questions

I think the DMG is very clear about this.

The DMG is reasonably clear, but also highly inaccurate. The FRCS has much better rules, but they're far from perfect, too.

 

[Xarlen]

I'm going to assume my math is right, since no one corrected me.

 

[dcollins]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Minotaur Advancement Questions

The DMG is reasonably clear, but also highly inaccurate. The FRCS has much better rules, but they're far from perfect, too.

I'm not sure what you mean by "inaccurate".
Do you mean that the DMG's ECL figures or HD-as-monster-levels are poorly balanced, or something else?

 

[Xarlen]

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23480

Gralluk is finished.

 

[Spatula]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Minotaur Advancement Questions

I think the DMG is very clear about this. According to the core rules, the monster HD are treated as class levels, and, "when crestures gain levels, they add class levels, as in the multiclassing rules in the Player's Handbook". (DMG p. 24, "Experience for Monsters").

So a starting ogre is 4th level. When they add one level, they're 5th level (precisely as in the example on DMG p. 24), and get no feat just like any other multiclassing character taking a new class. When they achieve 6th level, they get a new feat just like anyone else.

So if the monster HD are treated as class levels, an unclassed ogre PC should start with 2 feats (lvl 4 character) instead of 1 (Large 4 HD giant-type).

I think CRG's "inaccurate" statement has to do with the DMG treatment being currently out of favor, especially its level adjustments. A revised system for monster PCs appeared in the FRCS, and that's what's been used in every product published since then - but there's nothing about gaining feats as monster PCs advance in the new setup.

One notable difference between the DMG way and FRCS is the DMG sets the character level of the monster PC as HD + class levels, while the FRCS system uses ECL + class levels. By the DMG, a 2nd level ogre barbarian is a 6th level character, with 2nd lvl equipment plus the stock ogre equipment, and usable in a party of 7th level characters. By the FRCS, it's a 10th level character that has 6 HD, with the experience and equipment of a 10th level PC.

When I say I wished the DMG hadn't messed the whole topic up, what I mean is I wish they had taken the time to get it right the first time, instead of publishing alternate systems in non-core books. I guess Savage Species should clear all this up, although I have no intentions of buying it.

 

[Spatula]

I'm going to assume my math is right, since no one corrected me.

The damage bonus on the greataxe and gore attacks looks wrong to me. Greataxe should be STR or STR*1.5, gore should be STR/2. The charge damage bonus should be STR*1.5.

 

[Xarlen]

That's sort've odd. If a Dragon was given a single class level, I would think it wouldn't be treated as the Class level of it's ECL. That would be horrible.

I treated Gralluk like he had 6 classes, previous. Thus he got a feat at 9th level and 12th level. Even if the CR is only 10.

 

[Xarlen]

The MM has the damage of the charge as 4d6+6.

I fixed the Str damage over on the Rogue's Gallery thread. Gralluk's got the smackin' there.

 

[Spatula]

That's sort've odd. If a Dragon was given a single class level, I would think it wouldn't be treated as the Class level of it's ECL. That would be horrible.

That's just for monster PCs. And it makes sense - if your PC is treated as a (frex) 10th lvl character in all respects (experience, in a 10th lvl party, facing 10th lvl challenges, etc), you should have the equipment of a 10th lvl character.

 

[Xarlen]

Oh, I understand that! I thought we were talking about NPCs.

Yay! Someone else who uses Frex.