Mirror Image and Magic Missile

[Caliban]

Not trolling - trying to find an interpretation without holes.

-Hyp.

Try thinking for yourself on a few of these instead of making us do all the work for you.

 

[Hypersmurf]

He's no longer a legal target, so the spell has no effect.

But the Heat Metal guys are no longer "one or more creatures, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart". They're no longer legal targets.

How is that different to Dominate Person?

-Hyp.

 

[Caliban]

But the Heat Metal guys are no longer "one or more creatures, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart". They're no longer legal targets.

How is that different to Dominate Person?

-Hyp.

This is really becoming tiresome.

The target is "Metal equipment of one creature/two levels".

The "no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart" is just a limit on how many you can target at once.

If they move after the spell affects them, they are still legal targets.

 

[Berk]

Not trolling - trying to find an interpretation without holes.

-Hyp.

Good luck, won't happen. There are always gonna be holes in everything. And if non can be found don't worry, someone will eventually find em. Anyways, enough from me on this for a long time because I have gotten the biggest damn headache from this.

 

[IceBear]

But the Heat Metal guys are no longer "one or more creatures, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart". They're no longer legal targets.

How is that different to Dominate Person?

-Hyp.

And that's true. That's why I said it's a DM's interpretation.

In general whether or not something is a valid target only applies during the instant the spell is cast. After that it's up to the spell description or DM interpretation. With the case of Domination I made a judgement call based on the fact that the spell can't normally affect outsiders so there must be something that causes the spell to fail against them, and thus why I would retroactively end the spell. A spell's target changing Type while the spell is in effect is a weird situation and thus I don't think the normal rules can be applied in all cases.

If you notice, I would let the person Blessed keep the bonuses if he switched sides during the battle. When the spell was cast he's a valid target and unless there is a passage in the spell that says he loses all benefits if he becomes an enemy then he's still effected.

IceBear

 

[Hypersmurf]

The target is "Metal equipment of one creature/two levels".

The "no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart" is just a limit on how many you can target at once.

And yet all that information is contained under the entry of "Target", with nothing to indicate a distinction between "Targetting information that applies for the duration of the spell" and "Targetting information that only matters at time of casting".

-Hyp.

 

[Caliban]

And yet all that information is contained under the entry of "Target", with nothing to indicate a distinction between "Targetting information that applies for the duration of the spell" and "Targetting information that only matters at time of casting".

-Hyp.

Try using a little common sense please.

 

[IceBear]

And yet all that information is contained under the entry of "Target", with nothing to indicate a distinction between "Targetting information that applies for the duration of the spell" and "Targetting information that only matters at time of casting".

-Hyp.

That's because that's normally all that matters. There are some spells that will explicitly mention in their descriptions that they will end if certain conditions occur. I'll get one as a sample. In general, if the information is in the TARGET entry then it only applies during the casting time

IceBear

 

[Hypersmurf]

In general, if the information is in the TARGET entry then it only applies during the casting time.

Like Dominate Person?

Try using a little common sense please.

That's a slippery slope towards House Rules...

-Hyp.

 

[Murrdox]

Somehow this thread has gotten side-tracked big time. Now we're all talking about valid targets becoming invalid targets, spell durations, blah blah blah.

My basic points

1) You can cast a spell on ANY target, even an invalid one.

2) If the target proves to be invalid, then the MAIN effect of the spell does not occur (ie a Magic Missle doesn't damage a Major Image)

3) If the target proves to be invalid, all other effects the spell normally produces that are not affected by the target (rays, lights, sounds) still occur (ie Magic Missle still streak through the air, Hands glow while casting Cure Light Wounds, etc...)


NOW, if you want to get into a VALID target BECOMMING an invalid target, then you have several different options, and they all depend on the spell.

Asking about the Heat Metal question is silly, there isn't anything in the spell that says the effect stops if the targets move away from each other. This is the same fallacy that allies stop being blessed if they move too far away from the Cleric who cast the spell.

In terms of the Monk becomming an Outsider, it seems obvious to me that the Dominate Person spell ends. It doesn't end because the Monk is now an invalid target.... it ends because as an Outsider, the Monk is now immune to the effects of the spell.

There is no text in the Bless spell that states bless is like a "contract" where if the ally acts against the Cleric, the effect of Bless goes away. If a character is an ally at the time Bless was cast, he gets the benefit of the full duration of the spell, unless the Cleric ends the spell prematurely.