Missing Rules

[Reynard]

So, normally I like 5E's attitude toward letting the DM adjudicate things, but tonight I ran into a stumper.

We had an impromptu Fantasy grounds session (due to technical difficulties with another Roll20 game) and I quick purchased a module. In it there is a room with some hanging platforms, so we had to look up the jumping rules. Funny thing -- there aren't any. More precisely, there aren't any Athletics check rules regarding jumping. It says you can use athletics to jump a greater distance than is allowed in the movement rules, but gives no indication of how difficult that is or how far it would be.

I made a quick ruling and moved on, but it still baffled me. That just seems like the kind of thing you put in the Athletics skill section, even if it is a simple "If greater than the player's strength score, the athletics skill check indicates the distance of the character's running long jump (half from standing)" or something.

Now, the lack of that rule hardly seems worthy of a whole thread, so I open it up to the floor: what other rules are weirdly missing from 5E, in your opinion?

 

[Blue]

So, normally I like 5E's attitude toward letting the DM adjudicate things, but tonight I ran into a stumper.

We had an impromptu Fantasy grounds session (due to technical difficulties with another Roll20 game) and I quick purchased a module. In it there is a room with some hanging platforms, so we had to look up the jumping rules. Funny thing -- there aren't any. More precisely, there aren't any Athletics check rules regarding jumping. It says you can use athletics to jump a greater distance than is allowed in the movement rules, but gives no indication of how difficult that is or how far it would be.

Hmm, Index says:

Movement
. Jumping, 182, 190

Pg 182 has rules for long jump (how far you can jump) and high jump (including how high you can reach with your arms when you do it).

There are parts of the book I wish were organized better, this would make sense with Athletics, but it also makes sense with the rest of movement and it's listed in the index.

 

[Reynard]

Hmm, Index says:

Movement
. Jumping, 182, 190

Pg 182 has rules for long jump (how far you can jump) and high jump (including how high you can reach with your arms when you do it).

There are parts of the book I wish were organized better, this would make sense with Athletics, but it also makes sense with the rest of movement and it's listed in the index.

Right but the description of Athletics says you can use the skill to jump unusually long distances but provides no guidelines on that use of the skill. That's the sort of thing I am talking about.

 

[Staccat0]

I am really glad they don’t define this stuff. It would make designing or improvising cool dungeons a pain.

 

[Reynard]

I am really glad they don’t define this stuff. It would make designing or improvising cool dungeons a pain.

How so? How does having guidelines for adjudicating jumping make dungeon design difficult?

 

[LordEntrails]

Yea, no rules. My rulings are;
Long Jump > DC10+1/additional foot
High Jump > DC 10+2/additional foot

 

[5ekyu]

Right but the description of Athletics says you can use the skill to jump unusually long distances but provides no guidelines on that use of the skill. That's the sort of thing I am talking about.

note to be picky, but if you look thru the Using Each Ability you will find plenty of cases where they tell you what a skill can be used for without specifics on DC and as per the norm in the rules they leave it up to the Gm to assign a DC for specific circumstances.

The difference with Jump really is that it has *more* details than many of the others in that it is given a default minimum guarantee established in the other chapter not that it is less informed or detailed than the norm.

I would say that what is missing is a more normalized "minimum success based on stat rule" for many of the checks that are not opposed (difficulty by opponent) or combat linked - but they actually do that in the DMG with the options they provide there. As always subject to GM fiat but a default would be nice to start from.

 

[ad_hoc]

There ar guidelines for ability checks. More detailed in the DMG if you have that.

 

[iserith]

The important part of the sentence you're referencing in the High Jump section is, to me, "in some circumstances." Not in all circumstances, but some. Which strongly suggests to me there is something in the environment that is permitting a higher jump, such as lower gravity or the like, or some approach the player is proposing that is different than normal and has an uncertain outcome and meaningful chance of failure (otherwise there wouldn't be an ability check).

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Easy: DC 5
Medium: DC 10
Hard: DC 15
Very hard: DC 20

That seems reasonable from a theatre of mind style point of view.
You can say platforms are 15 ft apart. Everyone with Str 15 or higher easily gets across. For someone with 10 to 14 Str it is easy difficulty (notice that the strength or athletics bonus gives someone with 14 a better chance than someone with 10 Str. For 5 to 9 it is medium difficulty. For 1 to 4 it is hard.