Modiphius 2d20 System Opinions?

[Reynard]

I am sure there are. I am not one of them - I'm not currently using Cortex for anything.


The current campaign I'm running for my regular group is SWADE - Deadlands: Lost Colony. And that seems to be working well. I can see the appeal. But I also wouldn't use it for Trek.

No, I wanted to use Cortex because it starts with a structure that very easily and naturally maps the 2d20 Attributes and Disciplines, but would allow me to adapt harm to characters in a way I feel fits the genre better. I also think the way Cortex generates rising complication and tension is good for Space Opera.

Cortex is one of those systems that when people talk about it, my interest is piqued, but I have no desire to build a game from scratch using it. Maybe one day i will play it at a con, or find one of the games that used it as a core (there was a Marvel one I think, as well as Smallville and maybe Leverage?).

 

[zarionofarabel]

This seems like a fairly common thing when exploring a new game, particularly one which works differently from what you're used to.

That's the thing, it wasn't them discussing how the rules worked, as they were all familiar with 2d20 games. It was them discussing the specifics of how to apply the rules, most often the ephemeral skills and attributes. Partway through one of the players even had a momentary monologue where he went on a little rant about how he could conceivably apply his highest rated stat to every roll he made, and how he was purposefully avoiding doing so because it felt like like he was exploiting the ambiguous nature of the stats. That kind of ambiguity is an issue for me because it so often results in massive disruptions to narrative flow.

 

[RenleyRenfield]

That's the thing, it wasn't them discussing how the rules worked, as they were all familiar with 2d20 games. It was them discussing the specifics of how to apply the rules, most often the ephemeral skills and attributes. ...

Oh, yeah, I can totally see this in games like Dune. If there are 5 Scene Traits active, and you have Talents and such that interact with those, it could be a bit of a extended hash-out where "ok, so this scene trait is 2, but I have this trait which brings it down by 1, but then there is this other scene trait, and player x spends momentum and I negate that trait, and then I have this other trait and Talent which each give me bonus X"...

Yeah....

This is a thing in only a few of the 2d20 games though...

Dune and Infinity are examples of games that do not have scene traits at all.

and only Infinity has personal character traits, of which a GM can only invoke 1 (and its a negative that earns your an Infinity point, so they wont do this often), so these are in no way the same as traits in Dune.

Oddly enough, I terms of play, I think Conan and Infinity may be the 'simplest' of the 2d20 games

 

[dbm]

Cortex is one of those systems that when people talk about it, my interest is piqued, but I have no desire to build a game from scratch using it. Maybe one day i will play it at a con, or find one of the games that used it as a core (there was a Marvel one I think, as well as Smallville and maybe Leverage?).

That’s why I picked up a copy of the Dragon Prince RPG. I’m unlikely to run it but a worked example of Cortex is a handy thing to have. I have the Cortex Plus games in PDF, but Dragon Prince is Cortex Prime.

 

[jolt]

I've only played Dune, Star Trek 1E and 2E, and John Carter and those are on the lighter end of the spectrum. I enjoyed them even with groups of 6+ people and the action went by pretty fast. For any game that uses metacurrency, how the GM uses it will have a big impact on the experience.

 

[Bagpuss]

TL/DR = 2d20 is a game where players are in control of the flow of Metacurrency.
While dice rolls are the main generator of the Momentum, it is not the only way.
While the GM starts with Heat, the players from that point on "press their luck" and grant more, but also get to do more.
2d20 is far more rewarding of the flow of metacurrency.

I've played Star Trek 2nd Ed, and Dune, and run Dune I didn't get that feeling at all.

As far as I've seen successful rolls where you get over the TN of successes is the only way to gain momentum.

You can give Threat to the GM in return for the effects of momentum, but it isn't momentum itself.

My issue with 2d20 is generally on TNs of 0 or 1 you stand a chance of gaining momentum (even then you likely need a lucky roll on TN1), on TN's on 2 you are more likely to need to spend momentum (but a lucky roll you are breaking even), on TN 3 or more you are either losing momentum or gaining threat. Generally to be successful probability wise with an decent Attribute+Skill (of at least 15+) you need to be rolling one more dice than the TN. So anything above TN 1 you are running at a loss, at TN 3+ you might as well give up and accept the loss.

The GM has control over the TN and as soon as you hit a difficult TN (due to one thing or another) you end up giving threat (although they start with some anyway). So you end up in a vicious circle where you give Threat to get dice, which means he can spend the threat to raise the TN on the next roll, so you give more threat to get dice to stand a chance.

The players really have very little control over the flow of the metacurrency it is determined by the TN, and the GM controls the TN.

And the annoying thing is all this metacurrency bargining stuff happens before you roll. So it doesn't flow and feel like cinematic action RPG to me.

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The 2d20 roll under mechanics are nice and I like momentum in that it lets players buy assets and introduce plot points rather than just modify the dice. I am very tempted to try running the game without Threat at all and see how that plays. But I think the whole metacurrency thing slows down the game and over complicates things.

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I'm very tempted to run a hack of it where there is no Threat, you always roll just 2d20 or 2d20 +1d20 from an assist. Momentum can only be spent on creating Traits, Assets or introducing NPCs.

You can say how your Traint or Assets gives an automatic success, which help with higher TNs.

Say you were doing a Wheel of Time 2d20 version, if you have earned a Heron Marked Blade, your trait would mean you always have an automatic success in melee combat, before you even roll your dice to get more successes. Which means you would likely wipe the floor with lesser opponents.

So there isn't as much bargining or accountacy on the fly. You just roll your 2d20 and add your automatic successes, compare with the TN and earn some Momentum, unless you are doing something particularly tricky.

 

[Kannik]

I have played 2d20 under Trek, and only skimmed through the 2d20 Dune rules.* On the whole, I find it a moderate system. I like the group momentum aspect (fits well for Starfleet characters) and how they define and use Advantage/Disadvantage tags. The rest though is pretty bog standard stuff, with little to emphasize the more introspective, thematic, and character focused aspects that Trek often brings in. And while I love any non-linear system that generates margin of success, the 2d20s here is a bit fiddly and not the easiest to intuit one's probabilities.

On the whole, I enjoy playing the game enough (and made both custom character and reference sheets for it), but the system itself sits in an awkward place and isn't tuned well to what Trek style stories aspire to be. Like Umbran, my first choice would be to run a Trek campaign in Cortex Prime, easily cribbing the Divisions and tweaking the Attributes and elevating Values (and species) to a higher influence (by making them Distinctions).


* Which it amuses me to no end that the previous license holder was Last Unicorn Games which also had the Trek license... so far Modiphius hasn't suffered the same fate.