Monk or Assassin, Which do you Dislike?

[aj3ai]

Just to add my 2 cents on this. As for monks, it can easily be the wandering traveller (ala Kane from the original Kung-fu TV series). There was plenty of far east influence in Europe (are we forgetting the Silk Road that was around since Roman times?). Following the same styling, they could have been an escort of a caravan from a distant part that practices a previously unknown form of fighting. Simple explaination to the backstory.

I think this is kind of my problem. There is no good way to make the Monk feel a proper part of the environment, he always has to play the stranger in a strange land.

 

[The Human Target]

It's not an issue of simulating medieval Europe, but medieval European myth (and the Tolkien-esque fantasy which it inspired). Elves and dragons (and wizards and druids and paladins) fit in that milieu in a way that kung-fu masters don't.

Maybe you don't want a strictly European (or East Asian) flavored campaign, and prefer the kitchen-sink milieu that many DnD settings have. That's fine. But some campaigns benefit from a narrower tone. A setting or campaign is defined in part by what it excludes. If you include all possible fantastic influences, you haven't actually embraced all those fantasy genera; you have created a new one that imperfectly realizes all those influences because of all the other stuff mixed in, and it might not be everyone's preference. It's sort of analogous to this.

Oh I mean I agree that monks don't fit into pseudo-Europe.

And I'm fine with the idea of restricting things in certain campaigns with a very specific focus.

I just don't think the generic DnD game strives for either of the above things very hard or at all.

I think this is kind of my problem. There is no good way to make the Monk feel a proper part of the environment, he always has to play the stranger in a strange land.

Just say "Monks are as common as wizards."

Bada-bing!

 

[Incenjucar]

Meh. If I wanted to cling to tradition, I'd live in a cave and hunt for food with a sharp rock.

Monks and assassins are perfectly fine in my games, which are not set in Magical Europe but rather a fantasy setting. There's no such thing as "exotic" in a game with vampire manta rays as a classic monster.

 

[Greg K]

I think this is kind of my problem. There is no good way to make the Monk feel a proper part of the environment, he always has to play the stranger in a strange land.

I disagree. Keep the staff and change the asian weaponry to some that are more european. Have an oppressive kingdom that doesn't allow normal people to carry weapons. Have a monastic order of dissidents that is against the oppressive government and trains its members in unarmed martial arts (which Asia does not hold a monopoly), weapons and the ability to channel arcane magic or psychic ability in a limited form (just ki renamed).

I still prefer a monk that is based on the OA Shaman, because it is, in my opinion, easier to customize and reflavor (including dropping spells for more bonus feats). However, the PHB monk can be made to work in D&D.

 

[Greg K]

Monks and assassins are perfectly fine in my games, which are not set in Magical Europe but rather a fantasy setting. There's no such thing as "exotic" in a game with vampire manta rays as a classic monster.

The above is based on the assumptoin that anyone not running a Magical Europe uses everything including vampire manta rays rather than, selectively, choosing what exists and what does not.

 

[gamerprinter]

I agree with GregK - a monk doesn't have to resemble a Shao Lin type, rather make him a standard friar, with the friar haircut, hooded robe and staff. He doesn't cast spells rather fights with bare hands, all those poison immunities, still mind, etc. can be divinely granted powers - and he's called a monk. This look like a European styled monk to me. You've got unnecessary oriental baggage with the monk, just change the flavor and he's no longer eastern.

 

[1Mac]

Those are good ways to rationalize the monk in a Euro-medieval-fantasy world. But they do feel like rationalizations, in that they are oddly specific, and therefore belie the fact that the class was inspired by a decidedly non-Western source.

Or to put it another way: you guys are saying, "It's not a Shaolin martial artist. It's a member of a monastic order that fights unarmed and unarmored and is aided by a host of supernatural psycho-physical powers." That's in the neighborhood of "It's not a duck; it's a waterfowl that quacks."

 

[Greg K]

Those are good ways to rationalize the monk in a Euro-medieval-fantasy world. But they do feel like rationalizations, in that they are oddly specific, and therefore belie the fact that the class was inspired by a decidedly non-Western source.

Or to put it another way: you guys are saying, "It's not a Shaolin martial artist. It's a member of a monastic order that fights unarmed and unarmored and is aided by a host of supernatural psycho-physical powers." That's in the neighborhood of "It's not a duck; it's a waterfowl that quacks."

No, my point was that it can be made to work without being a stranger in a strange land not that it is appropriate for every campaign. Anyone that believes monks can't work in a non asian setting should track down a copy of Will Shetterly's Witch Blood and read it.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Those are good ways to rationalize the monk in a Euro-medieval-fantasy world. But they do feel like rationalizations, in that they are oddly specific, and therefore belie the fact that the class was inspired by a decidedly non-Western source.

Or to put it another way: you guys are saying, "It's not a Shaolin martial artist. It's a member of a monastic order that fights unarmed and unarmored and is aided by a host of supernatural psycho-physical powers." That's in the neighborhood of "It's not a duck; it's a waterfowl that quacks."

Some of the best settings combine several elements from different cultures to produce something new. My friend ran a setting where the dwarves were the primary source of monks. The dwarves culture had a lot of Asian flakes to it, and it worked. I guess if you are running a straight European style setting it won't fit well. But I've never had a whole lot of trouble incorporating in to my game one way or another.

 

[Incenjucar]

The above is based on the assumptoin that anyone not running a Magical Europe uses everything including vampire manta rays rather than, selectively, choosing what exists and what does not.

If you can remove vampire manta rays from your home game you can remove monks and assassins.