Monk=Striker? I'm disapointed

[Tony Vargas]

If you want to divorce 'Ki' from it's cultural context and have 'the power of the soul' as a power source, don't call it 'Ki,' call it 'Soul' or 'Internal' or 'Self' or some other english word (and some different word in whatever language you translate the rules into, like 'Giest' if you translate them into German or 'Ki' if translated into Japanese).

Besides, scrub the Monk of it's culutural, oriental martial arts, context and flavor, and you have nothing, because that's all the D&D Monk has ever been.

But, hey, if this means 'Ki' is gone as a power source, great. Glad to see it go.

 

[DracoSuave]

If you want to divorce 'Ki' from it's cultural context and have 'the power of the soul' as a power source, don't call it 'Ki,' call it 'Soul' or 'Internal' or 'Self' or some other english word (and some different word in whatever language you translate the rules into, like 'Giest' if you translate them into German or 'Ki' if translated into Japanese).

Actually I do agree. The power source SHOULD be named Soul, rather than Ki, given what they've said about it. It opens up what you can do with it.

Besides, scrub the Monk of it's culutural, oriental martial arts, context and flavor, and you have nothing, because that's all the D&D Monk has ever been.

I cannot agree. They scrubbed the cleric and paladin of their original cultural flavor, and they're doing just fine, thank you very much. You can easily have a fist fighting mystical monk without invoking the Tao, just like you can have a cleric without invoking the Knights-Templar, or the paladin without invoking Charlemagne.

But, hey, if this means 'Ki' is gone as a power source, great. Glad to see it go.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Personally, when I first heard about the Monk, I was hoping for a melee controller.

 

[JBeatnik]

Honestly, I've always wanted to play a "brawler" type of character, but the "ki" theme of the monk and all their supernatural powers always mucks up the DM or the world. If the power source was named "soul", it could be like the inner anger of someone or their will to fight that produces some of the supernatural effects. As it is, its easier right now to pick a half-orc rogue with ruthless ruffian and improved grab.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The Cleric and Paladin are still divine classes who worship a deity, and with all the 'valiant' this and 'radiant' that in Paladin powers, it hasn't been that thorougly scrubbed of it's monotheistic origins. But, it's been moving in that direction from the begining. D&D has always had a polytheistic setting - maybe 'Paladin' was a bad choice of name in that sense - and while its historical aspects were steadily polished away, it's still decidedly western. Same with the Cleric. The polytheism of D&D is clearly derived from western sources - greek, roman, norse, celtic & tuetonic - even when pantheons from or inspired by those of other cultures are included, they take on the feel of western polytheism (well, as percieved in the west in the 20th century, anyway).

While the Monk was never /specifically/ a shao-lin monk, it's identity as a class was rooted in the then-still-somewhat-exotic mystique of oriental martial arts. It still is. Calling it psi instead of ki, isn't going to change that, anymore than replacing 1e crosses with 3e Pelor sun-disks did for the Cleric.

 

[DracoSuave]

While the Monk was never /specifically/ a shao-lin monk, it's identity as a class was rooted in the then-still-somewhat-exotic mystique of oriental martial arts. It still is. Calling it psi instead of ki, isn't going to change that, anymore than replacing 1e crosses with 3e Pelor sun-disks did for the Cleric.

Watch Brotherhood of the Wolf. There's ways to do martial arts without having the orient involved.

Let's face it, while we've been inundated with hong kong martial arts action movies, the reality is, they don't have the monopoly on martial arts, nor do they even have the monopoly on -monastic- martial arts. Their were religious orders-militant which were unarmed combatants in western europe as well.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Brotherhood of the Wolf was a great flick, but it's 'martial arts' feel was the result of the artistic influence on cinema of eastern martial arts, not an attempt to portray 18th century french and american indian fighting styles. Like I said, it's not that exotic anymore, it was still a little exotic in '79 when the 1e PH featured the Monk.

I'm aware of militant monastic orders in the west, like the infamous 'black monks,' but they were not unarmed combatants by any stretch of the imagination - more like small personal armies for the church. Western 'martial arts,' when the effort is made to categorize them as such, are more often sporting or even scientific - boxing, wrestling, fencing, savate, and the like - with a few exceptions like Capoeira, which, like many eastern martial arts traditions, was a response to the limitted availability of weapons to the practioners.

None of them really have that mythic/mystic element that makes eastern arts so compelling, either. Nothing Ki - or Psionic - about them. A western 'martial art' based class would be Martial. Indeed, that's what all the martial classes are, to one extent or another.

 

[DracoSuave]

To that extent, a Martial power-source hand-to-hand guy would be an awesome class.

 

[Thundershield]

To that extent, a Martial power-source hand-to-hand guy would be an awesome class.

Definitely agreed.

Or make it a Fighter build option. Something like a Pugilist class feature that you can pick alongside Tempest Technique or Battlerager Vigor, which then grants something like the Monk Unarmed Strike, bonus to grab, benefits when wearing light armor, etc.

I imagine a Fighter grabbing his foe and pinning him down while beating the living daylights out of him with a set of brass knuckles would be an incredibly sticky Defender and a thematically sound character concept.

Sure there's an issue about exceptionally large opponents, but that could be fixed with utility powers or feats, I suppose.

 

[wayne62682]

How? By punching your wounds to death on an abstract level?

Ever see "Fist of the North Star"? The main character is arguably a monk (albeit a godlike one who makes people explode by punching them) and can heal people by touching their pressure points on their body.