Monks & Psionics question

[RigaMortus]

I realize that these are real-world definitions. I have exhausted all RAW quotes I can find, and they all (as far as I am concerned) point to an unarmed strike being a melee weapon. I hoped perhaps real world etiology might shed some more light on exactly what is a melee weapon. It matters not to me, I say unarmed strikes are melee weapons, you say they aren't and you are sticking to your guns. Good for you.

Also the PHB say they aren't melee weapons as well...

 

[Egres]

A Monk's unarmed strike is NOT a manufactured weapon. It is a natural weapon.

You should know that a Monk's Unarmed Strikes aren't Natural Weapons.

 

[Jdvn1]

I am sure there is, but I can't seem to find any atm.

If you find one, I'll be a believer.

A melee weapon can be "manufactured" or "natural". A Monk's unarmed strike (or anyone's unarmed strike for that matter) would be considered a natural weapon. So if a spell affected "melee weapons" I think it would affect both.

A Monk's unarmed strike is NOT a manufactured weapon. It is a natural weapon. I am not sure why you are suggesting it is worthless though. Care to explain?

See, I was thinking in terms of ... y'know, the point of this thread. Having to do with spells and similar effects. It seemed to me that the argument was basically, "They're not melee weapons, so spells that affect melee weapons don't affect Monks' Unarmed Strikes." Which leads to the idea that the term 'manufactured weapon' is worthless since there's no rules impact to the term.

For the purposes of the thread, the Monk's Unarmed Strike is a manufactured weapon. Technically it's not, but the original question was regarding with respect to spells.

 

[RigaMortus]

You should know that a Monk's Unarmed Strikes aren't Natural Weapons.

From the Glossary:

Natural Weapon: A creature's body part that deals damage in combat. Natural weapons include teeth, claws, horns tails and other appendages.

Under Monk (p41 in 3.5 PHB):

Unarmed Strike: Monks are highly trained in fighting unarmed, giving them considerable advantages when doing so. At 1st level the monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk's attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees and feet.

I am fairly certain fists and feet are appendages. Though there is no further explanation in D&D terms as to what else an appendage is.

 

[Lasher Dragon]

NOTE: FROM THE SRD, THESE ARE ALL LIGHT, ONE-HANDED, OR TWO-HANDED MELEE WEAPONS -

Light, One-Handed, and Two-Handed Melee Weapons: This designation is a measure of how much effort it takes to wield a weapon in combat. It indicates whether a melee weapon, when wielded by a character of the weapon’s size category, is considered a light weapon, a one-handed weapon, or a two-handed weapon.
Light: A light weapon is easier to use in one’s off hand than a one-handed weapon is, and it can be used while grappling. A light weapon is used in one hand. Add the wielder’s Strength bonus (if any) to damage rolls for melee attacks with a light weapon if it’s used in the primary hand, or one-half the wielder’s Strength bonus if it’s used in the off hand. Using two hands to wield a light weapon gives no advantage on damage; the Strength bonus applies as though the weapon were held in the wielder’s primary hand only.
An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon.
One-Handed: A one-handed weapon can be used in either the primary hand or the off hand. Add the wielder’s Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with a one-handed weapon if it’s used in the primary hand, or 1/2 his or her Strength bonus if it’s used in the off hand. If a one-handed weapon is wielded with two hands during melee combat, add 1-1/2 times the character’s Strength bonus to damage rolls.
Two-Handed: Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively. Apply 1-1/2 times the character’s Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with such a weapon.

 

[Egres]

From the Glossary:

Natural Weapon: A creature's body part that deals damage in combat. Natural weapons include teeth, claws, horns tails and other appendages.

Under Monk (p41 in 3.5 PHB):

Unarmed Strike: Monks are highly trained in fighting unarmed, giving them considerable advantages when doing so. At 1st level the monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk's attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees and feet.

I am fairly certain fists and feet are appendages. Though there is no further explanation in D&D terms as to what else an appendage is.

Just 2 notes:

1) Apples: red fruits

Are all red fruits apples?

2) Hope it will not sound rude, but even my d*** is an appendage, but I wouldn't call it a Natural Weapon.

 

[Egres]

NOTE: FROM THE SRD, THESE ARE ALL LIGHT, ONE-HANDED, OR TWO-HANDED MELEE WEAPONS -

Is considered......

Nuff' said.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Egres: See LD's latest. I think he's got you.

And yet, the heading is "Light, One-Handed, and Two-Handed Melee Weapons."

Not, "Light, One-Handed, and Two-Handed Weapons."

Ergo, everything it talks about is in reference to melee weapons.

 

[thud13x]

Yep. Weapon of Energy would work fine.

It's time for Flaming Fists of DOOM!

Now that you mention that, Patryn, I have a feeling Steelfist might be partaking in some of that psionic goodness.

NK

 

[Lasher Dragon]

Oh and no, monk's fists/feet/knees whatever are not natural weapons, they are just considered natural weapons for the application of spells/effects that enhance such. For instance, a monk could not take a feat that had a prerequisite of natural weapons (I can't think of the feat off-hand, but I know it exists).