Monte Cook - Racial Importance
- Thread starter avin
- Start date
I think that Races should have significant mechanical impact...or none. Either make it entirely flavor/role play related, or do it in a mechanically interesting way that has significant impact on play. I'm tired of the whishy-whashy in between we've gotten with race in the past couple of editions. That's why I'm not opposed to some form as race as class, because, IMO, classes are strong fantasy archetypes, not professions. With the high amount of class customization of post D20 D&D, you could do a lot to differentiate your dwarf from another; plus the different rules for building npc can make tribes and npcs of that race fill in certain roles in a better world-building fashion.
One thing that concerns me is that they appear to be going back to +x to a stat and -x to another stat. This seems to be a lazy way to differentiate the races, it that is all that is done. 4e seemed to be on the right track with adding some nice racial abilities beyond the stat boosts. I was actually hoping they might get rid of the stat modifiers in favor of more interesting abilities and drawbacks, but I could live with them if they gave us more.
One thing that concerns me is that they appear to be going back to +x to a stat and -x to another stat. This seems to be a lazy way to differentiate the races, it that is all that is done. 4e seemed to be on the right track with adding some nice racial abilities beyond the stat boosts. I was actually hoping they might get rid of the stat modifiers in favor of more interesting abilities and drawbacks, but I could live with them if they gave us more.
Kobold Avenger
Legend
I voted moderate, because I'm worried that strong would really pigeonhole races. I want to have a Half-Orc Wizard or Bard, who doesn't completely suck like they did in 3e, but would be sort of moderate as a Wizard or Bard like in 4e.
Lord Mhoram
Hero
Played a Dwarven Wizard in an old Rolemaster game. Loved it. He also wore magic armor that didn't impact his magic, and carried a battle axe. He always led with the battle axe, then fell back to magic when it didn't work well... because well, he was a wizard.
So I agree completely about something that helps lean a race towards archetype but not penalize so much against type that it makes it unplayable.
Lord Mhoram
Hero
Personally I want race heavy impact.
I think race should have impact throughout the life of the character - every 4 or 5 levels there is a mechanical thing that helps make race a big deal. And feats or other mechanic (racial levels, themes, whatnot) that allow someone to be the Dragonborn of all Dragonborn.
Basically you have class that give you 60 or 70 percent of your definition throughout the life of the character, and split the rest between theme and race - and those get you some thing the entire life of the character. Then the ability to customize with feats (or something similar) that can reinforce class, theme or race (or go some other route).
I think race should have impact throughout the life of the character - every 4 or 5 levels there is a mechanical thing that helps make race a big deal. And feats or other mechanic (racial levels, themes, whatnot) that allow someone to be the Dragonborn of all Dragonborn.
Basically you have class that give you 60 or 70 percent of your definition throughout the life of the character, and split the rest between theme and race - and those get you some thing the entire life of the character. Then the ability to customize with feats (or something similar) that can reinforce class, theme or race (or go some other route).
I too am tired of this wishy washy halfway important races.
Please Don't make The Racial Ability Score Adjustment the Most important part of a race.
It's the biggest problem. Instead make the other parts of the race more important.
I'd like to see something like this:
Halfing
- +1Dexterity -1Strength
- 30ft speed
- Small character. Halfling get +1 AC, +1 to attack rolls, +4 to Dexterity and Intelligence checks to hide but use smaller weapons.
- +2 to Strength check to climb and jump acrobatically
- +2 to Dexterity check to be hide, move silently, palm small objects, and pick pockets without notice
- +2 to Intelligence checks to disable devices
- +2 to Charisma checks to resist fear
- Halflings can perform sneak attacks with thrown weapons, slings, and rays equal to a rogue of its level.
Remathilis
Legend
I went with very; I want them to be more than humans with different stat adjustments, but not so much that dwarves suck at all things non-smashing-you-with-a-hammer. Like many have said, I want race to define you as a culture (as races are shorthand for cultural norms and odd heritages). An elf should have skill in woodlore, archery, and arcane lore, a dwarf is good with hammers, tough as nails, and expert craftsmen. Halflings are naturally stealthy, a dragonborn breathes fire/cold/acid, a tiefling resists fire.
One thing I want to see back is racial traits NOT directly tied to combat. Elves sleep less, dwarves can intuitively sense depth underground, gnomes have great senses of smell, etc. I'd love to see more odd quirks like this, not just ability adjustments, skill adjustments, free weapons and a racial power.
One thing I want to see back is racial traits NOT directly tied to combat. Elves sleep less, dwarves can intuitively sense depth underground, gnomes have great senses of smell, etc. I'd love to see more odd quirks like this, not just ability adjustments, skill adjustments, free weapons and a racial power.
I went moderate. I want race to matter, at all levels, but I don't want it to be the defining characteristic. What you do,and how you change over time defines you, not what race you were born into.
That said, I do think the races should be distinct. It always seems to me that as you go up in level you should be able to choose new powers from your class, from your race, from your theme, from whatever 2-7 tracks we get to choose from. If your DM doesn't like racial abilities being all that different, eliminate that track, same with themes.
So, if you are a dwarf cleric from the city, you could choose to advance along the dwarf track, the cleric track, or the city theme track.....never understood why it wasn't that way. So, all purple dragon knights, regardless of race or class could have something in common, or there could be some that are more distinct, and are just sort of part of that theme, for example.
That said, I do think the races should be distinct. It always seems to me that as you go up in level you should be able to choose new powers from your class, from your race, from your theme, from whatever 2-7 tracks we get to choose from. If your DM doesn't like racial abilities being all that different, eliminate that track, same with themes.
So, if you are a dwarf cleric from the city, you could choose to advance along the dwarf track, the cleric track, or the city theme track.....never understood why it wasn't that way. So, all purple dragon knights, regardless of race or class could have something in common, or there could be some that are more distinct, and are just sort of part of that theme, for example.
I like the strong differentiation +4 / -4 to a stat gives, but is that going to leave the halfling rogue who dumps STR with a score of 4? Instead, what about racial minimums and maximums? The designers are already talking about "mortal limits" to ability scores. What if a halfling has a maximum 15 strength, but a minimum 13 dexterity?
(And then make light blades use dexterity for their to-hit bonus, and heavy blades use strength, so you can still have an effective halfling fighter if you want.)
(And then make light blades use dexterity for their to-hit bonus, and heavy blades use strength, so you can still have an effective halfling fighter if you want.)
