Morale systems

[Garthanos]

Not according to my reading, you get one chance to use Intimidate on an opponent, per encounter.

Failure condition...
Failure: In combat, you can’t try again against that target during the same encounter.

No such issue if you succeed.

 

[Garthanos]

You can make them run chase after them and keep them running LOL.

Or make all the minions scatter out of your way so you can approach their boss. Then turn around and intimidate them into some other action.

I am sure pushing them and pulling them around the battlefield is just a small subset.

It's written too much like an AD&D ability.

 

[Garthanos]

That is a wikipedia version but here is the standard.

 

[Garthanos]

My level 1 Dragonborn Warlord with even 18str 18cha ... can have 17 intimidate skill with a background of wandering duelist and skill focus feat average roll of 27 or 28

at level enemies are 10 to 15 will with a hostility bonus +10 average DC is 23 or so ... unless they do not speak my language then it's 28.

 

[Garthanos]

My level 1 Dragonborn Warlord with even 18str 18cha ... can have 17 intimidate skill with a background of wandering duelist and skill focus feat average roll of 27 or 28

at level enemies are 10 to 15 will with a hostility bonus +10 average DC is 23 or so ... unless they do not speak my language then it's 28.

Then rituals or practices if you know who you will interact can remove the language penalty. Blood thirsty Mein will give a critical hit boost

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Then rituals or practices if you know who you will interact can remove the language penalty. Blood thirsty Mein will give a critical hit boost

Yeah, Intimidate is actually one of the easier things to optimize. I seem to recall charops had level 1 PCs with +20 or more Intimidate bonus. Then you just need the weapon which makes anyone you hit bloodied, and you can basically take out one enemy 'for free' each combat, though you do have to hit them and then expend a second standard action, so its not completely crazy. Still, there are some stupid hacks like making an entire PARTY full of characters like that, where you can basically end most fights before round 2.

 

[Garthanos]

Yeah, Intimidate is actually one of the easier things to optimize. I seem to recall charops had level 1 PCs with +20 or more Intimidate bonus. Then you just need the weapon which makes anyone you hit bloodied, and you can basically take out one enemy 'for free' each combat, though you do have to hit them and then expend a second standard action, so its not completely crazy. Still, there are some stupid hacks like making an entire PARTY full of characters like that, where you can basically end most fights before round 2.

(I think the weapon with the insta bloodied might be the hack and maybe the primary real problem --> unless it does it on a critical hit or something.)

i miscalculated the 17 but note even optimizing to the 18 or 19 depending on class isnt even enough to make me feel guilty.... I can completely reach it without gimping myself

A possible adjustment to BACKGROUNDS could help bring skill optimizing 1 small step back one is to have the backgrounds give skill focus the feat (instead of a independent +2 or +3) ie it makes it a feat bonus and then doesnt combine with spending a feat on the skill.

 

[Garthanos]

Flensing weapon has a daily power ongoing 5 damage and enemy is considered instantly bloodied save ends. So you may have some opportunity to tag it with intimidate more than once.

The "Frightful Bastards" OR "Pacifiers" - A party all using Flensing weapons and
intimidation could indeed be with a rather approachable couple rolls and early (as Abdul said round 2) taking out 1 enemy out probably every fight unless you use up your item dailies.

Could reflavor the Flensing as "Peace bonded weapons" and maybe have them do psychic damage.

The party should take Fearsome host (tribal)... so that when in range of one another they will get +5 on their intimidate... instead of the +3 of skill focus well since this will basically be every fight. A DM allowing Tribal feats (pretty sure some say they don't) are are basically begging for a team based combo like this.

The bard would still want "Words of Wrath" as the +5 power bonus once per encounter and that stacks... you will want it for this.

Its generally valuable to have solos and elites able to reliably counter an effect which allows a save (or generally ditch high disabling effects) even for things other than some specific combo ( such as this) .

 

[Garthanos]

Flensing weapon has a daily power ongoing 5 damage and enemy is considered instantly bloodied save ends. So you may have some opportunity to tag it with intimidate more than once.

The "Frightful Bastards" OR "Pacifiers" - A party all using Flensing weapons and
intimidation could indeed be with a rather approachable couple rolls and early (as Abdul said round 2) taking out 1 enemy out probably every fight unless you use up your item dailies.

Could reflavor the Flensing as "Peace bonded weapons" and maybe have them do psychic damage.

The party should take Fearsome host (tribal)... so that when in range of one another they will get +5 on their intimidate... instead of the +3 of skill focus well since this will basically be every fight. A DM allowing Tribal feats (pretty sure some say they don't) are are basically begging for a team based combo like this.

The bard would still want "Words of Wrath" as the +5 power bonus once per encounter and that stacks with the feat bonuses ... you will want it for this.

Its generally valuable to have solos and elites able to reliably counter an effect which allows a save (or generally ditch high disabling effects in context the bloodied condition is) even for things other than some specific combo ( such as this) .

Am I weird in that i feel if the DM designs interesting adversaries this could still be fun story...

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Am I weird in that i feel if the DM designs interesting adversaries this could still be fun story...

Absolutely, but even in a Story Now context it might be a bit extreme... I mean you'd certainly be ASKING for that interesting adversary, no doubt, but then what? Again, this is the problem with the inconsistent defeat mechanics which are created by 4e's Intimidate implementation (and similar morale-type mechanics, or potentially other types of mechanics).

Even hypothesize something like a set of mechanics where you have an 'alternate hit points' that represented morale, or etc. then you start to have problems with characters that don't work well together, that are operating at cross purposes, etc.