D&D 5E Mordenkainens feedback.

[Parmandur]

Players buy books?

No, not really.

 

[Parmandur]

The content in Mordenkainen's is more than a little unfocused. We have devils, demons, and gith on one hand, which neatly fit into a "planar monsters" category, then... halflings, dwarves, and elves. Huh?

I think originally there were two products planned: a book filled with lore on the playable races (elves, dwarves, halfling, gnomes), to help players roleplay their characters better, and a book about planar monsters (gith, demons, devils, etc.). One of those products probably got cancelled, and Wizards must've decided to smoosh the two books together. So now we have what is essentially The Complete Book of Elves/Halflings/Dwarves combined with The Book of Vile Darkness. It's an odd fit, to say the least. But if you can look past the confused theme, Mordenkainen's has a lot of good lore in it. More players should read it.

It's a little less random if you consider the level that the Devil Chapter plays into another PHB Race and their cultural background, the Tieflings. In fact, between Volo's and Mordenkeinen's, all non-Human PHB RaCes are covered except for Dragonborn...who just got a UA article...

 

[hopeless]

Okay I have to ask just how much of change did they make of the elves, dwarves and halflings?

 

[Burnside]

No, not really.

Seriously, the vast majority of the people I know who only play and never DM (which is a lot of people) don't buy any of the books. At most, a few of the most dedicated ones get the Player's Handbook. Zero of them would buy Mordenkainen's.

 

[hopeless]

Seriously, the vast majority of the people I know who only play and never DM (which is a lot of people) don't buy any of the books. At most, a few of the most dedicated ones get the Player's Handbook. Zero of them would buy Mordenkainen's.

I'd be one of them but thanks for the heads up I'll give it a look.

 

[Parmandur]

Seriously, the vast majority of the people I know who only play and never DM (which is a lot of people) don't buy any of the books. At most, a few of the most dedicated ones get the Player's Handbook. Zero of them would buy Mordenkainen's.

That matches my experience as well. It also explains the product design, if they assume a high Venn overlap of book purchasers with DMs who are the sole purveyors of options in their groups.

 

[Kurotowa]

The content in Mordenkainen's is more than a little unfocused. We have devils, demons, and gith on one hand, which neatly fit into a "planar monsters" category, then... halflings, dwarves, and elves. Huh?

I think originally there were two products planned: a book filled with lore on the playable races (elves, dwarves, halfling, gnomes), to help players roleplay their characters better, and a book about planar monsters (gith, demons, devils, etc.). One of those products probably got cancelled, and Wizards must've decided to smoosh the two books together. So now we have what is essentially The Complete Book of Elves/Halflings/Dwarves combined with The Book of Vile Darkness. It's an odd fit, to say the least. But if you can look past the confused theme, Mordenkainen's has a lot of good lore in it. More players should read it.

I have a similar theory, but I figure the devils and demons chapter started as a tiefling section but wandered off focus. Notice how all the player options parts in it are tiefling based? So my bet is the book was pitched as a very PHB2 type deal to give expanded background and options for all the core player races. Not half-orcs, cause orcs got a Volo's section, and not dragonborn, because they're just not popular enough. But we've got elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, tieflings, and oh let's throw in the gith as something new to spice up the pot.

Of course, the MtoF book we got is one of the weaker of the 5e line. The player options aren't deep enough to really inspire mechanical creativity and the racial lore is too divorced or at odds with any of the established settings to be of much use. Generic setting lore is only useful if you're playing in a generic setting, or building one from the ground up. It's about the only book I can't see myself recommending to anyone besides completionist collectors. Even Volo's is better with all the new races, even if they're not great mechanically.

ETA: Okay, on review my non-DM self forgot that half of MtoF is a MM2 bestiary. So I guess that's the main use-case for buying it. For players, though? An easy skip.

 

[Burnside]

I have a similar theory, but I figure the devils and demons chapter started as a tiefling section but wandered off focus. Notice how all the player options parts in it are tiefling based? So my bet is the book was pitched as a very PHB2 type deal to give expanded background and options for all the core player races. Not half-orcs, cause orcs got a Volo's section, and not dragonborn, because they're just not popular enough. But we've got elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, tieflings, and oh let's throw in the gith as something new to spice up the pot.

Of course, the MtoF book we got is one of the weaker of the 5e line. The player options aren't deep enough to really inspire mechanical creativity and the racial lore is too divorced or at odds with any of the established settings to be of much use. Generic setting lore is only useful if you're playing in a generic setting, or building one from the ground up. It's about the only book I can't see myself recommending to anyone besides completionist collectors. Even Volo's is better with all the new races, even if they're not great mechanically.

In its defense:

• Lots of the monsters are great
• The variant tieflings are very cool and do add a lot of options for mechanical creativity to that race
• gith are actually a very good player race; I think it's only a matter of time before a high-profile gith character shows up and then everyone will be playing them. Baldur's Gate 3 may cause this.

 

[Parmandur]

I have a similar theory, but I figure the devils and demons chapter started as a tiefling section but wandered off focus. Notice how all the player options parts in it are tiefling based? So my bet is the book was pitched as a very PHB2 type deal to give expanded background and options for all the core player races. Not half-orcs, cause orcs got a Volo's section, and not dragonborn, because they're just not popular enough. But we've got elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, tieflings, and oh let's throw in the gith as something new to spice up the pot.

Of course, the MtoF book we got is one of the weaker of the 5e line. The player options aren't deep enough to really inspire mechanical creativity and the racial lore is too divorced or at odds with any of the established settings to be of much use. Generic setting lore is only useful if you're playing in a generic setting, or building one from the ground up. It's about the only book I can't see myself recommending to anyone besides completionist collectors. Even Volo's is better with all the new races, even if they're not great mechanically.

ETA: Okay, on review my non-DM self forgot that half of MtoF is a MM2 bestiary. So I guess that's the main use-case for buying it. For players, though? An easy skip.

Well, in Volo's Guide to Monsters, they specifically call out Fiends and Gith as something they would like to do in a similar book (along with Dragons and Undead, who might both get their full coverage by the end of year with Ravenloft and the mystery Draconic product). I would say they brought in the PHB Races when they realized that Tieflings and Half-Orcs would be the best developed PC Races, with Goblinoids beating out Dwarves and Elves.

 

[Parmandur]

In its defense:

• Lots of the monsters are great
• The variant tieflings are very cool and do add a lot of options for mechanical creativity to that race
• gith are actually a very good player race; I think it's only a matter of time before a high-profile gith character shows up and then everyone will be playing them. Baldur's Gate 3 may cause this.

If Matt Mercer brings Gith into CR, they might hit it big.