More on Enterprise's "new direction" [Slight Rant, long]

[Orius]

Here's a news link that I found when I logged on to ENWorld today. It's basically a short interview with Braga about the show's new direction:

http://www.trektoday.com/news/170503_01.shtml

Before I begin, I feel I owe an apology to Mark. This thread has potential to devolve into more Braga bashing, and I know how much he wants to avoid that. But after reading this, I too have come to the conclusion that Braga just doesn't get it. This paragraph I think clinches it for me:

"Although many fans have speculated the Romulans may come to play a big part in forthcoming seasons, Braga said Enterprise should be using fresh scenarios. "Sure, we could have made it the Romulans that attacked Earth. But haven't we seen the Romulans for the past 15 years? Do we really just want to keep seeing the Romulans? No. We've got to do new stuff."

But Enterprise is in the past, so revisiting the old stuff does make more since. Sure maybe these Xindi might be cool and all, but if they don't grab the fans' attention, will they be jettisoned like the Suliban have seem to have been? The Suliban supposedly were supposed to be a major threat, but we've seen them what, 5 times in about 50 episodes? The Temporal Cold War plot was supposed a major storyline but all we've seen is the same type of banal storylines that have been told over and over again in Trek. That's why the show has been slipping in ratings; people want something fresh. And fresh doesn't mean new makeup and costumes.

I think the TCW storyline could have been good if it was used. The real badguy isn't Silik, it's the dude cloaked in shadows we see ordering him around. The mystery about him is what makes him interesting. I don't know about anyone else, but I have a suspicion that this guy is actually a human. After all, the foulest villians are those who are supposed to be virtuous, and Star Trek has been showing us unrealisticlly perfect humans for like the last 15 years. It would be interesting if these bad guys in the TCW were actually some sort of rogue group in the Federation from around the 26-28th century or so (which seems to be where they're operating from). The only weakness here is that the good guys are (obviously) from the 31st century Federation, and I don't see how they wouldn't know everything the bad guys are going to do.

Revisiting old races isn't a bad thing. In fact the impression that I've gotten is that the fans like seeing how things came together to form the Federation. A good example is this season's episode "Cease Fire". Archer successfully manages to negotiate a peace deal between the Vulcans and Andorians. It's a great episode because it lays a foundation for the Federation that we all know. And both alien races -- Vulcan and Andorian -- go all the way back to TOS. This tells me that the classic Trek material can be worked with. And it also seems to have been well recieved among Trek fans, which is a good indicator that it wouldn't be a mistake to turn the show in this direction.

The same point can be made with the Romulans. The fans know the Romulan Wars are in the very near future. They expect to see Romulans. But all we get is a single episode this season which I suspect was little more than a plug for "Nemesis". What a waste. The Romulans of all the adversaries we have are, IMO, the most interesting of all Trek villains. Why shouldn't they be used? It makes sense, it fills in a very important part of the history of the Trek universe, and they're one of the few villians that haven't been ruined by overuse.

"Xindi" means nothing to me. As good as this storyline could be, there's absolutely no impact from this Xindi attack in all other Trek series. That makes it hard for me to suspend disbelief. An attack this devastating would be remembered into the 23rd and 24th centuries; after all both centuries remember WWIII all to clearly. If it were Romulans, it would make more sense in the long run.

Braga however, and Berman to some extent as well, I think are far more concerned about getting ratings up than continuity and internal logic. Well, a new badass race isn't going to guarantee it, and they risk alienating the core fan base which is far more damaging in the long run. The fans have their own preconceptions about what Trek is and isn't, and continuity of the backstory is an important part of those preconceptions. Weekly Neilsens might be important to the show but with Trek, the fans are far more imortant. It's the fans that keep the franchise alive. Star Trek would have died, permanently, in 1967 if it weren't for the fans. The power of Star Trek fandom is not to be underestimated: it got the prototype for the space shuttle named Enterprise. But I see these days the fans grumbling ever louder about Trek and what Berman/Braga are doing to it. I see fans turning their back on Trek because they don't like what it's become. That I think is the greatest threat to Trek's future, far more than bad ratings ever will be.

 

[Mark]

Before I begin, I feel I owe an apology to Mark.

Thanks.

I think he's right about the Romulans, though. They'd be a very unsatisfying villain for Enterprise to exploit. We, as an audience, already know enough about them that they'd hold little surprise for us and the episodes would have to be sure that the characters find out even less (if we are to believe that the TOS and early TNG episodes are still true). We're better off if they are only mentioned in later, seventh season episodes as the new threat that needs to be handled as the curtain closes on the series. (EDIT - The Romulans and Romulan War stories would make for some great movies about eight years from now after we've not seen them for a half a decade or so, IMO. Big space battles with tons of starships oughta be quite impressive with the level of film/technology we'll have by then if special effects keep developing at the rate they are now! )

I think they still will have the ability to drag out the TCW sparringly and a few times per season. I'd rather it not be the primary focus of the series. Also, the changes that are made by TCW episodes in the timeline have the ability to explain why the new Xindi are never heard of after the time of Enterprise, I suppose.

I like how they have been weaving the stories to refer to things that have happned early in the series thus far. I hope they continue to do this and maybe raise the stakes for how important such references are.

(Question: When are the Eugenic Wars supposed to take place relative to the Enterprise Timeline?)

Regarding ratings, I'm all for anything they can do to draw in enough people so they can stay on the air. I do not want the final Trek series to end before a full run or to be the death knell for the franchise, be it television, movies, etc.

I think they need to get a few DS9 movies out to satisfy the cravings of the canonites and hard-core, I-hate-anything-after-DS9 fans...

 

[Eternalknight]

Re: Re: More on Enterprise's "new direction" [Slight Rant, long]

(Question: When are the Eugenic Wars supposed to take place relative to the Enterprise Timeline?)

1993 was when they reached their peak.

 

[drothgery]

Re: Re: Re: More on Enterprise's "new direction" [Slight Rant, long]

1993 was when they reached their peak.

The dates of Eugenics Wars and WWIII have been pretty badly mungled by Trek writers, because the original 1990s timeframe makes no sense now. When I was much younger, and a much bigger Trek fan, I started on a fanfic which explained the 'official history' of the Trek universe from about 1980 - 2100 was bogus.

 

[Hand of Evil]

I still do not know why they don't use the klingons! Raiders, slavers, savages, third world leaders, nazis in space, noble warriors, they are made to order but they do nothing with them. Romulans should remain in the shadows, hinted at but show why Klingons were so hated in ST:OS.

 

[Mark]

I still do not know why they don't use the klingons! Raiders, slavers, savages, third world leaders, nazis in space, noble warriors, they are made to order but they do nothing with them. Romulans should remain in the shadows, hinted at but show why Klingons were so hated in ST:OS.

To the contrary, I think the Klingons have cropped up in their fair share of episodes. I'd be sick of Enterprise if they did show after show where they fell back on Klingons as the antagonist. I think we'll see plenty of them with a price on Archer's head. Have the Suliban even been used as much as the Klingons?

Besides, same problem with the Klingons as the Romulans. We know how their story ends. I don't recall how many races finally make up the Federation but if they are going to use a race that ultimately becomes our ally as a main focus for the series, please let it be one of which we know very little.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

As I've said elsewhere, I don't think it's anything intrinsic to Enterprise itself that has caused the poor ratings. I think it's simply viewer fatigue - 40 years of Star Trek have simply worn out the franchise's welcome. Maybe the advent of Star Wars, especially the past few years with the new films, helped sap some of Trek's strength. Two big scifi franchises may have caused market saturation for scifi.

Anyway, regardless of the cause, Enterprise itself is actually a good show. I've grown to like the characters, and find their stories interesting. The recent episode showing Archer and Trip's past, the guy who almost became Enterprise's skipper, and the struggle to get the Warp program on track, was just plain good character-driven stuff. But it may have been too subdued for today's TV climate. I don't know.

What could they do to ramp up the ratings? I don't know if anything will work right now. I was glad to hear Enterprise was renewed. With luck, it'll last five years, which is always good for syndication. We can always watch at our leisure once it all hits DVD, and not have to worry about ratings.

 

[mattcolville]

I have enjoyed many episodes of Enterprise. I think with one simple change, it could be one of the best shows on TV.

Make it half an hour.

Seriously, when I compare it to The West Wing...so much stuff happens in 1 hour of the West Wing, it makes Enterprise look like..a...thing that takes an hour to tell half an hour worth of story.

 

[Orius]

Thanks.

I think he's right about the Romulans, though. They'd be a very unsatisfying villain for Enterprise to exploit. We, as an audience, already know enough about them that they'd hold little surprise for us and the episodes would have to be sure that the characters find out even less (if we are to believe that the TOS and early TNG episodes are still true). We're better off if they are only mentioned in later, seventh season episodes as the new threat that needs to be handled as the curtain closes on the series.

We clearly disagree here. I like the Romulans as villains, they're a lot more interesting that the Klingon and Borg ever were. Even in the last few seasons of DS9 they were interesting with the Dominion War plotline. Of course, there is the possibility they could use the Romulan Wars to spin off yet another series, assuming Trek fatigue doesn't kill the show by then (and I hope it doesn't).

(Question: When are the Eugenic Wars supposed to take place relative to the Enterprise Timeline?)

Already happened. The Eugenics Wars took place in the early 1990s, and were confined to Earth.

Of course, in real world history the closest we ever got in the '90's was bioengineered (and quite controversial) crops. We're a bit behind, since we don't have sleeper ships yet either. (Khan fled in 1996 or something I think).

Regarding ratings, I'm all for anything they can do to draw in enough people so they can stay on the air. I do not want the final Trek series to end before a full run or to be the death knell for the franchise, be it television, movies, etc.

Oh, I agree. But like I said this expanse storyline may not necessarily do it anyway. A lot of times when shows radically retool like this, they tend to lose a part of the audience who prefered the way the show was and gets disillusioned with the new storyline. I've seen that happen before with sci-fi shows that were struggling on networks (anyone remember SeaQuest?).

The best thing for Star Trek is for UPN to tank so the show can be released in syndication, if you ask me. Network execs ALWAYS screw things up. The big problem is the UPN is trying to play the TV game like the Big Three networks, and it's failing, because the nature of television has fundamentally changed. Hell, the Big Three are failing at doing things the way they used to. So how much worse is UPN going to fail?

I think they need to get a few DS9 movies out to satisfy the cravings of the canonites and hard-core, I-hate-anything-after-DS9 fans...

Heh, actually, I'm not as die hard as that. I like Enterprise, I just think they're not meeting the show's true poential. I want to see it last as much as you do. And I want to see Archer lay the groundwork for the Federation, I want to see why the Federation races became part of the Federation and so on.
I don't mind the TCW plotline, either, it's just that B&B have sort of pumped it up as a selling point for the show, but it doesn't seem to be that important. Perhaps this new direction will bring it to the fore? Though I stand by my comment about the one weakness of the idea; there's at least two sides in this war, and one side is in the other side's future. How could they not know everything their opponents will do, have done or whatever the case may be? I mean it's all in their past, a matter of history.

 

[Orius]

To the contrary, I think the Klingons have cropped up in their fair share of episodes. I'd be sick of Enterprise if they did show after show where they fell back on Klingons as the antagonist. I think we'll see plenty of them with a price on Archer's head. Have the Suliban even been used as much as the Klingons?

Besides, same problem with the Klingons as the Romulans. We know how their story ends. I don't recall how many races finally make up the Federation but if they are going to use a race that ultimately becomes our ally as a main focus for the series, please let it be one of which we know very little.

I agree here. We know about the Klingons. The episode where they put Archer on trial this season was pretty good, we saw Klingon society from a different angle than usual, and some clues as to why they are the way they are. But they're already been used as much as they can be used without their presence being overbearing on the show. I think they'll probably reappear, Klingons are one of the most well-known aspects of Star Trek. But Klingons are definitely in more danger of overuse than the Romulans.