More on Enterprise's "new direction" [Slight Rant, long]

[el-remmen]

The episide on Risa was fine for me - because they developed her character and her brief relationship with her lover - humanizing a character and allowing the audience ot get to know her better - using a romantic rendevouz as the means to do this . . . Sex definitely has a long tradiiton in Star Trek - gratuitous and ass shots however are annoying (for example always making sure they show T'Pol in Decon)

 

[John Crichton]

No, that's right. It was Shockwave, Part II.

Ah, cool. My memory is better than I thought.

 

[Orius]

I'm always amazed how many folks claim Voyager was horrible coupled with a statement of how they hardly, if ever, watched the show.

But it was horrible, and I've seen perhaps half the episodes in the series, possibly more. Even some of Enterprise's worst episodes are better. Well, correction. There are Voyager episodes I would rather see than say, "A Night in Sickbay", or "(Enemy) Dawn" again.

"Learning Curve" I think was a good episode, though the ending was a bit hokey. My favorite part is when that mouthy Maquis officer says, "We've always done thinks the Maquis way, and it works for me," and then Chakotay decks him. That reminds me of the most disappointing aspects of Voyager: Chakotay. He could have been one of the most interesting characters, but they really didn't seem to develop him much.

Another of my favorites is "The Killing Game". The Hirogen captain in that episode was a very interesting character. He started by taking Voyager as a trophy, but actually learned about humans from the programs he was using, and becam concerned about the survival of his race.

 

[John Crichton]

I'm actually in the same "haven't seen too many Voyager episodes" camp. I have caught a few more on reruns recently but I can't claim that I've seen more than maybe 25-30 episodes at this point. Out of the ones that I did see, I liked about 5. The only one that I REALLY thought was excellent was the one directed by LeVar Burton that had Voyager crashing on that frozen planet and there was some time-travelesque stuff going on. That was very cool. I also enjoyed "Year of Hell." There were maybe one or two others in there that I didn't feel were bad but I have to say that the majority of the eps that I saw (which is admittedly not a good cross-section of viewing) were terrible in both plot and general character development.

I didn't like most of the characters and I hated the Captain which is death for any Trek series. Now, I didn't love Sisko on DS9 (I thought he was one of the weaker characters) but I didn't hate him which is fine by me as the rest of the cast was great. On Voyager, the only characters I liked were Seven (who, IMO was the best pure actor/actress on the show, forget her looks) and the Doctor. Tuvok was on/off but I didn't hate him. The rest of the main crew did nothing for me.

Enterprise has at least been good enough to keep me watching every week. Voyager couldn't do that, which I believe was its main failing as a viewer and huge Trek fan. It just simply didn't entertain me. Enterprise has brought me back into the Trek fold after Voyager and the Next Gen movies soured Trek for me.

Actually, now that I think of it I'm going to tell Tivo right now to record Voyager for me so I not only have something to watch over the summer, but so I can get a better view of the show....

God help me.

 

[rafrost]

Re: Re: When do the Romulans get warp drive?

I think that's just a relic from the past. It was a plot device used in TOS to allow for a "Submarine-type-chase" story. It really doesn't make a whole lot of sense now - but the episode is still a classic.

If you looking for a less meta-show type explanation, I believe it was revealed in either TNG or DS9 that the Romulans used a different power source. It was a quantum singularity as opposed to matter/anti-matter/dylithium crystal source. One could argue that the difference in technology could cause Scotty (in TOS) to say they had no Warp power.

Myrdden

I don't understand how you can say it does'nt make sence now. I remember reading about sublight romulan technology, and how amazing it was that it took so long to grind them back home during the war.

What source material am I missing? Yes it helped to fit a 'Sub chase", but doesn't change the speed.

 

[Umbran]

Re: Re: Re: When do the Romulans get warp drive?

I don't understand how you can say it does'nt make sence now. I remember reading about sublight romulan technology, and how amazing it was that it took so long to grind them back home during the war.

Because, if they don't have warp technology, you don't have to "grind them back home". They couldn't stop a warp-capable fleet from going straight to Romulus and cutting off the serpent's head right at the start of the war.

Fighting a warp-capable fleet with sublight ships would rather be like fighting modern mach-capable jets with piper cubs. As far as a sub-light ship is concerned, somethign capable of Warp 2 might as well be teleporting. The sublight ships cannot outrun, or chase, and can't even really manuver worth a darn by comparison. Might as well cut the engines and wait to be killed, because teh warp ships are going to come and go as they darned well please.

 

[rafrost]

Re: Re: Re: Re: When do the Romulans get warp drive?

Because, if they don't have warp technology, you don't have to "grind them back home". They couldn't stop a warp-capable fleet from going straight to Romulus and cutting off the serpent's head right at the start of the war.

Fighting a warp-capable fleet with sublight ships would rather be like fighting modern mach-capable jets with piper cubs. As far as a sub-light ship is concerned, somethign capable of Warp 2 might as well be teleporting. The sublight ships cannot outrun, or chase, and can't even really manuver worth a darn by comparison. Might as well cut the engines and wait to be killed, because teh warp ships are going to come and go as they darned well please.

Just because its not logical doesn't make it true in Star Trek.

Please cite an example from a story, plot or other source. Just cause you say a warp-fleet can do this, doesn't make it so. You should have seen enough Trek over the years to realize that. The script writers aren't and never have been that consistent.

A clever enemy may be able to find ways to stop that fleet from bypassing its defences.

 

[Orius]

I'm actually in the same "haven't seen too many Voyager episodes" camp. I have caught a few more on reruns recently but I can't claim that I've seen more than maybe 25-30 episodes at this point. Out of the ones that I did see, I liked about 5. The only one that I REALLY thought was excellent was the one directed by LeVar Burton that had Voyager crashing on that frozen planet and there was some time-travelesque stuff going on. That was very cool. I also enjoyed "Year of Hell." There were maybe one or two others in there that I didn't feel were bad but I have to say that the majority of the eps that I saw (which is admittedly not a good cross-section of viewing) were terrible in both plot and general character development.

I saw both of those too. The first one, about Voyager crashing on the frozen planet, I don't remember all that well. It's not a personal favorite, but isn't as bad as some.

"Year of Hell" was another good one. The ending was particularly good: the only way the timeline could be completely was restored was through the destruction of the timeship.

I didn't like most of the characters and I hated the Captain which is death for any Trek series. Now, I didn't love Sisko on DS9 (I thought he was one of the weaker characters) but I didn't hate him which is fine by me as the rest of the cast was great. On Voyager, the only characters I liked were Seven (who, IMO was the best pure actor/actress on the show, forget her looks) and the Doctor. Tuvok was on/off but I didn't hate him. The rest of the main crew did nothing for me.

Not quite the case with me. I hated Janeway, and Neelix to a lesser extent, but I felt rather indifferent towards the other characters. They just weren't developed enough, especially after Seven and the Doctor started hogging the plots. Jeri Ryan and Robert Picardo were both decent actors. Tuvok had his ups and downs. There was the episode "Flashback", where he badmouthed Sulu, but there was also good interplay between him and Kes, and then later Seven.

 

[Orius]

Re: Re: Re: Re: When do the Romulans get warp drive?

Because, if they don't have warp technology, you don't have to "grind them back home". They couldn't stop a warp-capable fleet from going straight to Romulus and cutting off the serpent's head right at the start of the war.

Exaclty. Humans are capable of at least Warp 5 at the start of the Romulan War. Having no warp drive at all would have put the Romulans at a very severe disadvntage. There's no way in hell they'd have been a serious threat without warp drive. I think the fact that "Balance of Terror" was a very early Trek episode written before a lot of basic assumptions were established needs to be taken into account.

 

[Staffan]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: When do the Romulans get warp drive?

Please cite an example from a story, plot or other source. Just cause you say a warp-fleet can do this, doesn't make it so. You should have seen enough Trek over the years to realize that. The script writers aren't and never have been that consistent.

Isn't there a Picard Maneuver around that deals with using warp drive against non-warp-capable opponents to some sort of great advantage? I vaguely recall something along the lines of moving around the opponent, firing phasers so you hit with multiple shots simultaneously.