More than 3.75

[Stalker0]

I especially like the idea of one hand, two hand, shield bonuses, especially the bonuses to certain skills and saves when having nothing in your off hand.

For magic, I think AE magic system is the future. It maintains the simplicity of the spells that dnd has always had (and should continue to have in my opinion) but allows for much more flexibility, customability, and general fun!!

I think the mechanics of SW SAGA could be useful for a 4E, but not wholesale. SW is a very low magic system, there are no magic items, and the force is nothing to high level dnd magic. But a good compromise between allowing big spells and SAGAesque cinematic fighting would be a welcome addition.

 

[Awakened]

With as many interesting ideas as there are in these threads floating around, I have to say I disagree with the idea of cutting back on classes. I like having lots of options, even if the differences are "granular" (they're often not) because they don't HURT the game- if you're a purest, you can stick to the core set of classes, and, if you're like me, you'll enjoy tossing ninjas and swashbucklers at yr PCs.

 

[Zaruthustran]

With as many interesting ideas as there are in these threads floating around, I have to say I disagree with the idea of cutting back on classes. I like having lots of options, even if the differences are "granular" (they're often not) because they don't HURT the game- if you're a purest, you can stick to the core set of classes, and, if you're like me, you'll enjoy tossing ninjas and swashbucklers at yr PCs.

Fair enough. I myself am a class junkie: my main character is a ranger3/fighter2/rogue1/scout1/wildrunner2/shadowdancer3. And the party I'm currently DMing has a warlock, sorcerer, dragon shaman, ninja/swordsage, and fighter/warblade.

I'm not so much casting a value judgment on the merit of dozens of base classes, as saying that in order to avoid the "3.75" tag, a somewhat significant change is needed in regards to classes.

-z

 

[Doug McCrae]

I posted a thread about removing Fly, Improved Invisibility, and Teleport from my campaign. The responses were passionate, to say the least. "Those are the best spells in the game!", "You're crippling your players!", "D&D assumes players have access to those spells!"

Well, if that's the case--if the wizard's choice of spell selection isn't really a choice at all--that there are "must-haves", then I say just be done with it and grant these abilities as class features of the Wizard class.

You have to allow players to make bad choices. It's right that some spells are better than others. It's right that some feats are better than others. You have to allow player decision making to make a difference.

However that shouldn't extend to classes imo, the game should NOT NOT be saying that some potential PC roles just suck from the word go.

 

[Doug McCrae]

This one's a no-brainer. It just doesn't make sense that a 10th level hero and a 1st level commoner, both with 14 Dex and wearing leather, are exactly AC 14. Heroes should be harder to hit

The 10th level hero could've added +2 to his dex, taken Dodge (yeah I know... he wanted it for Spring Attack ok?), two-weapon defense, levels in monk or the duelist PrC, been buffed by his druid and cleric buddies and bought magic gear. Or taken Vow of Poverty if he's just a cheat.

 

[Zaruthustran]

You have to allow players to make bad choices. It's right that some spells are better than others. It's right that some feats are better than others. You have to allow player decision making to make a difference.

I agree that choices need to be made. I'm saying that if the game assume certain capability, then the game should remove the element of uncertainty. I recall reading in the DMG something like "at this level, PCs should have access to Fly". Well, then just give it to them. Remove the "should".

A good example of this is the way 3.5 handles healing spells for the cleric. Spontaneous conversion guarantees that as long as the cleric has open spell slots, he can heal. You could do the same thing with Wizards: spontaneous conversion to Magic Missile at first level, Fly at 5th, Teleport at 9th. Not the most elegant solution, but it gets the job done.

 

[Zaruthustran]

The 10th level hero could've added +2 to his dex, taken Dodge (yeah I know... he wanted it for Spring Attack ok?), two-weapon defense, levels in monk or the duelist PrC, been buffed by his druid and cleric buddies and bought magic gear. Or taken Vow of Poverty if he's just a cheat.

So unless he specifically builds for AC, the kingdom's champion is no better at parrying an attack than Bob Yokel?

 

[Doug McCrae]

Fighting style is an overcomplicated feature in the current rules, which is a shame. The choice of what you do with your off-hand should be fun and dynamic--and require no feats. It's too bad that in 3.5, any character who takes the TWF feat will never ever use a shield or two-handed weapon, and any character who takes Power Attack will never use two weapons. Players should be free to switch fighting style to fit their mood and situation.

Provided they have weapon familiarity players are quite free to switch style and weapons as the situation demands. It's just that having twf, weapon specialisation and so forth gives them more impetus to stick. Which is exactly how it should be. Player build decisions should have an effect. PCs should be mechanically interesting, not cookie cutters.

In my game the psychic warrior often switches between sword + board and 2h weapon as tactics require. He also has an aberration bane mace which he used to good effect vs a skeleton thing with DR/bludgeoning last session. The orc barbarian often uses his bow until range is closed then switches to his maul.

 

[The Lost Muse]

A good example of this is the way 3.5 handles healing spells for the cleric. Spontaneous conversion guarantees that as long as the cleric has open spell slots, he can heal. You could do the same thing with Wizards: spontaneous conversion to Magic Missile at first level, Fly at 5th, Teleport at 9th. Not the most elegant solution, but it gets the job done.

I agree with this, and really do like it; however, I'd suggest that there should be a mechanic - whether it's incantations or something else - that allows a wizard to cast non-combat utility spells with either a fatigue cost, or with a greatly extended casting time. (or both...) Fly, 20 minute casting time, when not prepared in a regular slot. Teleport, 90 minute casting time, when not prepared in a regular slot.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

This one's a no-brainer. It just doesn't make sense that a 10th level hero and a 1st level commoner, both with 14 Dex and wearing leather, are exactly AC 14. Heroes should be harder to hit

That's part of what hit points model. The 10th level fighter can't take 10x as much physical punishment -- part of his hit points are luck, skill, etc that help him avoid being killed. Damage is abstract; 7 points will be mortal wound to the commoner, but to the 10th level fighter it's just a near miss he barely dodged, or maybe a bruise.

Originally, AC was more like "armor type." Magic armor and shields didn't even modify your AC, they penalized the attacker's "to hit" and your AC remained the same (same effect, but it kept the AC constant). Dexterity didn't modify AC. And AC values for armor+shield didn't overlap with AC values for armor alone. To me, it makes perfect sense that a 10th level Lord and a 0-level commoner both have the same AC when wearing leather.