D&D 5E Most powerful class in 5e

[Jester David]

Whichever one is being played by the power gamer of your group.

 

[jrowland]

I'm not trying to make myself unstoppable by the GM, because there is no point and the GM can always beat any character if they need to.

You answered your own question: The DM is the most powerful character.

That said, Wizard (diviner)1-17/Cleric 3 Halfling with the Luck feat is pretty fun...Manipulating Dice is fun (Halfling "luck", luck feat, diviner extra dice). I wish there was a "Fate/Luck" domain so I could add to it ( I know there is stuff here, I mean "official"). Not powerful in terms of raw BOOM, but certainly a game changer.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I do play classes in typical adventures, I've played in 4 or 5 different games so far and I am not always going for the optimal builds for my characters, but in this post I'm very much interested in theorycraft. DnD has one of the more detailed combat systems I've played in and I like see how powerful you can make a character. I'll probably never play the 19Wizard/1cleric, the 18Bard/2Warlock, or the 20 Druid, but I do like thinking about this stuff.

All I'm saying is that whatever class you think of might be the most powerful on paper isn't actually the most powerful. So it's a really hard thing you're asking because 5e does not match theorycrafting with actual play at all. That's why you haven't gotten many answers. There really isn't a most powerful build in 5e.

 

[pancakemaster808]

My impulse is to deny the question: 5e is based around the roving-spotlight style of balance. No class is 'most powerful,' in every circumstance, each will shine some fraction of the time. When you need to beat down a magic-immune golem, the fighter will shine, when you need to bring back a dead comrade, the Cleric will shine, when you need to steel a sacred scroll, the Rogue will shine, and so forth.

If you want raw, quantitative, easily measured power, look at DPR. You have a crowded field: the Fighter leads the pack in the simplest analyses due to multiple attacks, while the Barbarian, Paladin, and Warlock can all rival it - and so can most other classes in just the right situation, or by a metric that favors them (adding up all the damage done to each of many enemies in an AE, for instance).

I did spend some time looking at DPR, and I think Bard takes the cake with 40d6 and 20d8 using a total of a level 9 spell slot, level 1 spell slot, level 2 slot, and level 5 spell slot, but that's not the only measure I want to use, I'm mostly interested if other people have different experiences than me with these classes or if I missed something that'd change how I look at one class or another.

If you want to shake the classes out into Tiers (which, more than anything, were a ranking of versatility), the usual suspects - Wizard, Druid, Cleric - bubble to the top (and, together, they represent 17 of 38 possible sub-classes, so in a sense, that's half the potential PCs in Tier 1, making it a lot less meaningful). The Bard can't be far behind them, while Warlocks and Sorcerers are solidly Tier 2. Tiers 3 & 4 would be inhabited by the half-casters (Paladin, Ranger, Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster), Monks, Barbarians, and the Assassin, Thief, and perhaps even Battlemaster, with the Champion bringing up the rear, but hardly bad enough at his specialty to rate Tier 5. A bimodal distribution, really, with Tier's 1 & 4 predominant.

Still doesn't give you a clear answer to the question, though. ;P I mean, think about it, you've got two plausible rankings, and the guy arguably in the lead of the one, is right at the bottom of the other. It's not a tight, robust, or predictable sort of balance - but it's not entirely unlike the volatile balance of the classic game - which, is, afterall, the feel 5e was aiming for.

The tier system is an interesting way to look at things. Personally, I'd put Wizard, Bard, and Druid at T1. Cleric, Sorcerer, and Warlock at T2. Pally, fighter, barb at T3. Monk, Rogue, Ranger at T5.

And, don't forget the other major goal of 5e: DM empowerment.

How powerful the class is in the standard game is just a starting point. The DM could take a lowly class and elevate it, or cut an 'overpowered' one down to size, either by modding them, or by manipulating the situations in his campaign, or by simply ruling consistently to (dis)favor one or the other.

All of my theorycrafting assumes no house rules, since those change from group to group and a game not skewed for or against a particular character, since once again there is really no way to accurately factor that in.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I did spend some time looking at DPR, and I think Bard takes the cake with 40d6 and 20d8 using a total of a level 9 spell slot, level 1 spell slot, level 2 slot, and level 5 spell slot, but that's not the only measure I want to use

That's wise.

The tier system is an interesting way to look at things. Personally, I'd put Wizard, Bard, and Druid at T1. Cleric, Sorcerer, and Warlock at T2. Pally, fighter, barb at T3. Monk, Rogue, Ranger at T5.

Nod. It's mostly about versatility in play, which is one very important factor (as is DPR). If you found the Bard coming out on top of DPR (I'd never heard that one before), and put it in Tier 1, I think you've found your personal winner.

All of my theorycrafting assumes no house rules, since those change from group to group and a game not skewed for or against a particular character, since once again there is really no way to accurately factor that in.

A very reasonable assumption in the 3.x era, when the community sentiment was very much in favor of RAW. In 5e, the pendulum has swung the other way, and the rules are once again just a starting point. Assuming RAW isn't a good assumption anymore...

...except, of course, for AL. Even then, it's the AL spin on the Standard Rules you'd want to look at.

 

[Celtavian]

Bardic Inspiration only works on the bard's allies. Bard's are quite powerful. You overlooked Expertise which makes them quite hard to surprise. Bard's lack the ability to deal substantial damage. They would have to give up a lot to do less damage than most martials.

As far as power goes, it's based on what you want to do. Each class has extremely powerful abilities that stand out in a multitude of situations.

 

[pancakemaster808]

Whichever one is being played by the power gamer of your group.

This assumes you are pushing each class to the best of your ability =P.

 

[pancakemaster808]

You answered your own question: The DM is the most powerful character.

True, but I like mental exercise of comparing each class against the others.

That said, Wizard (diviner)1-17/Cleric 3 Halfling with the Luck feat is pretty fun...Manipulating Dice is fun (Halfling "luck", luck feat, diviner extra dice). I wish there was a "Fate/Luck" domain so I could add to it ( I know there is stuff here, I mean "official"). Not powerful in terms of raw BOOM, but certainly a game changer.

That does sound like a fun character to play, dice shenanigans are a cool mechanic and stacking them like that looks like a fun concept.

 

[pancakemaster808]

That's wise.

Nod. It's mostly about versatility in play, which is one very important factor (as is DPR). If you found the Bard coming out on top of DPR (I'd never heard that one before), and put it in Tier 1, I think you've found your personal winner.

It comes from use of hex, bestow curse, hold person/monster, and a level 9 scorching ray. It really is quite silly. I can map out the concentration juggling you have to go through if you want.

A very reasonable assumption in the 3.x era, when the community sentiment was very much in favor of RAW. In 5e, the pendulum has swung the other way, and the rules are once again just a starting point. Assuming RAW isn't a good assumption anymore...

...except, of course, for AL. Even then, it's the AL spin on the Standard Rules you'd want to look at.

I do like systems that give more flexibility to the GM, I've seen games that treat the GM as an adversary for the players to beat, which is just silly. I do have some problems with 5e's philosophy because it opens the system up to exploitation by charismatic players convincing the GM to allow silly things, but overall I think it's better than trying to make rules for everything.

 

[pancakemaster808]

Bardic Inspiration only works on the bard's allies.

The college of lore allows you to use bardic inspiration on an enemy to subtract from their rolls.

You overlooked Expertise which makes them quite hard to surprise.

I didn't mention it because it has less direct influence on combat, but you're right, it is quite good.

Bard's lack the ability to deal substantial damage. They would have to give up a lot to do less damage than most martials.

As far as power goes, it's based on what you want to do. Each class has extremely powerful abilities that stand out in a multitude of situations.

Bards actually do the most damage as far as I can tell, topping out at 40d6 and 20d8 without any magic items. You're right that classes can do certain things better than others, but in my opinion there are some classes that are straight up better than others.