D&D 5E Most powerful class in 5e

[pancakemaster808]

Concentration chains don't work. The action of casting a concentration spell cancels the effects of any concentration spells you are maintaining. So before the new effect lands, the old effect is already gone. They don't linger or stack in any way. Hex, Bestow Curse, and Hold P/M are all concentration spells. Their effects end when you cast another concentration spell.

"You lose concentration on a spell if you cast another spell that requires concentration. You can't concentrate on two spells at once." PHB, p. 203.

So your action of casting any of Bestow Curse, Hex, or Hold P/M cancels the effects of the others. You don't get the paralyzed and therefore double damage from Hold P/M plus the +1d8 per attack from Bestow Curse.

Point being, that you can't chain concentration spells like that. You could only paralyzed for double or +1d8 necrotic per attack with that Scorching Ray, not both. Further, neither Hex or Bestow Curse will help you cast Hold as they're all concentration spells. Whichever effect is on the target when you cast the next is canceled. And you're still talking about being within 5 feet of the thing to get the paralyzed auto crit on a hit for double damage.

Best you could do with a Hold or Curse + Scorching Ray combo is: 40d6 with Hold or 20d6 + 10d8 with Curse.

But still, you're talking about 40d6 to one target for a 9th and 5th/3rd vs Meteor Swarm which does 40d6 to everything in the 160-foot radius blast zones you lay down for one 9th-level slot. There's no comparison.

You don't need to chain concentration spells. You cast hex on them to make their will saves lower. You cast bestow curse using a 5th level slot to avoid requiring concentration, then you give up hex concentration to cast hold person.

 

[Celtavian]

You don't need to chain concentration spells. You cast hex on them to make their will saves lower. You cast bestow curse using a 5th level slot to avoid requiring concentration, then you give up hex concentration to cast hold person.

How do you make their will save lower with hex? Is bestow curse an ability check?

 

[KarinsDad]

Huh. That's interesting. So that means that Scorching Ray explicitly ignores PHB 196 even if you cast it on multiple creatures (separate damage rolls for each one instead of one), yet there's no indication of that in the text or any way to know which spells behave like Scorching Ray and which behave like Magic Missile. Scratching my head over this one.

Edit: oh, I see! It's the "strike simultaneously" in MM's text that is significant. So that means that Eldritch Blast is by default a sequence of blasts, which means that you can blast the same enemy backwards 40' if all blasts hit, because it's a sequence not simultaneous. Interesting.

The strike simultaneously clause of one spell should not indicate how another spell works unless the actual rules state so. Spells like Scorching Ray do not indicate that they are non-simultaneous for the "at the same time" clause of page 196 to be recognized. Nothing in Scorching Ray or Eldritch Blast indicates that the spells are non-simultaneous.

In fact, Magic Missile can have multiple damage rolls (multiple targets) and Scorching Ray cannot according to the original rules (page 196). So the errata doesn't actually do what he states that it does in his tweet. His tweet indicates the exact opposite of what the rules combined with the errata states. Very odd. If someone just read the rules and the errata, they would never come to the conclusion that he did in his tweet.


The entire concept of non-simultaneous spells opens up a can of worms. I declare a ready action that if anyone attacks the Fighter with a spell, then I will Dispel Magic that spell (I do not have Counterspell prepped today). So, the enemy Wizard attacks the Rogue, then the Cleric, then the Fighter with the Scorching Ray spell and I only stop the Fighter portion. But if he cast Magic Missile, I would stop the entire spell. And this is supposed to be intuited via the core rules and the errata. That's not happening at most tables.


I think it is funny that the errata doesn't actually clarify anything. And I don't see why all of the targets of Fireball get the extra damage of Empowered Evocation, but only one of the targets of Scorching Ray does. Really odd.

 

[CosmicThumb]

"I was convinced druids were the most powerful class in the game." ...They have consistent power spikes in their shape change and spell list (giant ape at level 7 is bananas)"

-What are you talking about. Druids can never wild shape into a Giant Ape. The CR is 7 and the max CR a Moon Circle Druid can change into is 6 at level 18. I think you may have misread the combat wild shape info. It is: "Starting at 6th level, you can transform into a beast with a challenge rating as high as your druid level DIVIDED by 3, rounded down." (emphasis mine).

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

"I was convinced druids were the most powerful class in the game." ...They have consistent power spikes in their shape change and spell list (giant ape at level 7 is bananas)"

-What are you talking about. Druids can never wild shape into a Giant Ape. The CR is 7 and the max CR a Moon Circle Druid can change into is 6 at level 18. I think you may have misread the combat wild shape info. It is: "Starting at 6th level, you can transform into a beast with a challenge rating as high as your druid level DIVIDED by 3, rounded down." (emphasis mine).

He's talking about the Polymorph spell. At level 7, the Druid gets Polymorph and can also Polymorph himself into a CR 7 Giant Ape. Bonus: unlike Wild Shape, Polymorph has no clause about having to have seen the beast before, although a reasonable DM will probably require you to at least know it exists.

You'll probably lose the spell after the first couple of hits, but at least Giant Apes can make ranged attacks so you don't have to be on the front line if you don't want to.

 

[Celtavian]

He's talking about the Polymorph spell. At level 7, the Druid gets Polymorph and can also Polymorph himself into a CR 7 Giant Ape. Bonus: unlike Wild Shape, Polymorph has no clause about having to have seen the beast before, although a reasonable DM will probably require you to at least know it exists.

You'll probably lose the spell after the first couple of hits, but at least Giant Apes can make ranged attacks so you don't have to be on the front line if you don't want to.

I came up with an interesting combination I want to try as a druid. Change into Giant Constrictor snake after casting conjure animals to summon a group of poisonous snakes. Tell them to attack the creature you're going after, change into snake, and constrict it to give them advantage. Could be nasty if they hit.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I came up with an interesting combination I want to try as a druid. Change into Giant Constrictor snake after casting conjure animals to summon a group of poisonous snakes. Tell them to attack the creature you're going after, change into snake, and constrict it to give them advantage. Could be nasty if they hit.

Not a criticism but an alternate version of the above: you could summon a mixed group of poisonous and constrictor snakes, which would have the same general effect without risking getting your concentration blown by damage.

Druids are fun and interesting and it's kind of a mystery to me why I don't really play them.

 

[CosmicThumb]

He's talking about the Polymorph spell. At level 7, the Druid gets Polymorph and can also Polymorph himself into a CR 7 Giant Ape. Bonus: unlike Wild Shape, Polymorph has no clause about having to have seen the beast before, although a reasonable DM will probably require you to at least know it exists.

You'll probably lose the spell after the first couple of hits, but at least Giant Apes can make ranged attacks so you don't have to be on the front line if you don't want to.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Celtavian]

Not a criticism but an alternate version of the above: you could summon a mixed group of poisonous and constrictor snakes, which would have the same general effect without risking getting your concentration blown by damage.

Druids are fun and interesting and it's kind of a mystery to me why I don't really play them.

I don't much like the nature theme myself. My DM let me modify it somewhat to be a hill druid that acts as a monitor of resources for Hill Dwarf clans that can wear metal armor. That makes it a bit more interesting than the usual forest druids.

 

[pancakemaster808]

He's talking about the Polymorph spell. At level 7, the Druid gets Polymorph and can also Polymorph himself into a CR 7 Giant Ape. Bonus: unlike Wild Shape, Polymorph has no clause about having to have seen the beast before, although a reasonable DM will probably require you to at least know it exists.

You'll probably lose the spell after the first couple of hits, but at least Giant Apes can make ranged attacks so you don't have to be on the front line if you don't want to.

With warcaster and resilience will save you have a pretty good chance of maintaining concentration against most damage rolls, so it's not too bad.